Why is their so much disrespect for Karate? And what can we do to stop it?

[Gerry Seymour]

We're all at risk of injury, some greater than others. There are accidents and injuries in all sorts of different training environments. The greatest injury I've ever witnessed was in Aikido. One student did the four directions throw and accidentally tore the guys shoulder. He didn't do it hard nor fast, he just did it at the wrong angle and the guy lives with the limitations from that injury to this very day.

Ow.

Just had to say it.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

So if it's hard enough to bruise the skin how hard do you think the brain hit the skull?





Actually the evidence of brain damage to some extent or another is well supported hence the great care sports now take with even the most amateur of athletes. Persistent, Long-term Cerebral White Matter Changes after Sports-Related Repetitive Head Impacts

I've gotten bruising around the eye from a hit soft enough that I didn't even slow down my attack (defender hit me). That was with a bare hand - the hard knuckle can break the capillaries in that thin skin area without much force transmitted to the brain. It was probably not harder than if you reach up and face-palm.

 

[Tez3]

I've gotten bruising around the eye from a hit soft enough that I didn't even slow down my attack (defender hit me). That was with a bare hand - the hard knuckle can break the capillaries in that thin skin area without much force transmitted to the brain. It was probably not harder than if you reach up and face-palm.

I understood him to mean that strikes to the head causes bruising only to the capillaries to the skin not to the brain at all. Nothing to do with the strength or lack of in the strike, he just thinks that it ONLY causes damage to the skin never the brain.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I understood him to mean that strikes to the head causes bruising only to the capillaries to the skin not to the brain at all. Nothing to do with the strength or lack of in the strike, he just thinks that it ONLY causes damage to the skin never the brain.

I read his meaning as they could damage the skin without damaging the brain. Whether that's true of the strikes in his case we can't know, but it is certainly true (assuming I read his meaning correctly, of course).

 

[Anarax]

So if it's hard enough to bruise the skin how hard do you think the brain hit the skull?

Both anatomically and physiologically the skin is the first line of defense, so the skin has no mechanism(s) to protect itself from trauma. However; the brain has multiple mechanisms and lines of defense to protect it. The skin, skull, blood brain barrier and cerebral spinal fluid are the anatomical defense mechanisms that protect the brain. Meaning, the minimal level of force required to bruise skin is significantly less than that required to cause permanent brain damage.

I understood him to mean that strikes to the head causes bruising only to the capillaries to the skin not to the brain at all. Nothing to do with the strength or lack of in the strike, he just thinks that it ONLY causes damage to the skin never the brain.

Refer to my quotes below

You're conflating any level and frequency of head contact to permanent brain damage is inaccurate.

CTE is a serious issue, but it's caused by multiple consciousness and/or chronically severe head traumas.

But there's not evidence that any contact to the head automatically causes permanent brain damage.

The questions isn't if there's damage or not, the question is where and to what extent is the damage?

Saying any force to the head at any frequency will result in CTE isn't supported.

Blackening eyes and bruising doesn't require a lot of power.

 

[Anarax]

I read his meaning as they could damage the skin without damaging the brain. Whether that's true of the strikes in his case we can't know, but it is certainly true (assuming I read his meaning correctly, of course).

Yes, that's exactly what I meant and what I conveyed in my posts. I'm unsure why that wasn't clear.

 

[Tez3]

Yes, that's exactly what I meant and what I conveyed in my posts. I'm unsure why that wasn't clear.

Perhaps because as one of my students ( an army doctor specialising in brain trauma) says you don't understand.

You are on about skin bruising, I'm talking about the brain bruising which is likely to happen without any signs of bruising on the skin.

 

[_Simon_]

Ah just rub some tiger balm on the brain bruise, fixes everything

 

[Tez3]

Ah just rub some tiger balm on the brain bruise, fixes everything

Ah you too My instructor's cure for everything. We had a lad who dislocated his shoulder and he told him to put Tiger Balm on, disturbing because my instructor is an Army Combat Medic.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Ah you too My instructor's cure for everything. We had a lad who dislocated his shoulder and he told him to put Tiger Balm on, disturbing because my instructor is an Army Combat Medic.

What, that's not standard issue for medics? Great for bullet wounds!

 

[_Simon_]

Ah you too My instructor's cure for everything. We had a lad who dislocated his shoulder and he told him to put Tiger Balm on, disturbing because my instructor is an Army Combat Medic.

Haha ah wow, but of course!

Yeah love it, works well for a lot of things (but alas... not everything...). To be honest I love the smell that lingers on you all day after applying it XD, the best smell...

 

[Tez3]

What, that's not standard issue for medics? Great for bullet wounds!

Tampax for bullet wounds I've been told! In Afghan the troops would go out on patrol with tourniquets already fastened around their legs so that they could be tightened immediately if needed. The morphine auto injectors also kept very close to hand.

Tiger Balm is good for mossie bites, headaches, stuffed up noses etc as well as smelling good, golden rules though is always, always wash your hands after using.

 

[Martial D]

The thing about trying not to get hit, is to learn it you need someone to be trying to hit you!

Sometimes they hit you.

If you are doing some style where nobody is trying to hit anyone else, that's cool, but some people like the 'martial' part of the art. Black eyes and bruises will sometimes be had.

 

[Tez3]

The thing about trying not to get hit, is to learn it you need someone to be trying to hit you!

Sometimes they hit you.

If you are doing some style where nobody is trying to hit anyone else, that's cool, but some people like the 'martial' part of the art. Black eyes and bruises will sometimes be had.

Of course sometimes, but it's not a good idea to have so many black eyes than your workmates etc feel compelled to mention it.

 

[Buka]

The worst black eye I ever had, I gave to myself. Had a big, strong dog, Zambuka. A wonderfully sweet pup.

This is him on his twelfth birthday. [We were heading out on the town.]


Anyway, after the dojo one night I was laying down on a heavy, old fashioned, fold out couch watching TV. Zambuka came trotting over with his toy, one of those hard rubber rings. He wanted some play time. So I took the ring and would curl it toward me, him fighting like mad to pull back. He'd bunch the carpet and pull the whole couch. I'd curl and pull him toward me.

He let go. I was in mid hard tug, my other arm holding the back of the couch because he was so strong. Punched myself square in the eye. And man, it hurt. That black eye was one for the books. Total above and below the eye, jet black and purple. Looked like something from a car accident. Actually, it looked like it was painted on, that's how dark it was.

And, of course, in the following weeks I ran into every single person I knew. And most said the same things, "Still doing that Karate, huh." Or "You still block with your face, chump?" All in good fun, mind you. Wish I had a pic of it, it would make me laugh today.

 

[CB Jones]

@Buka

So Zambuka was the originator of the arm wrestle prank?

 

[Buka]

@Buka

So Zambuka was the originator of the arm wrestle prank?

Bwhahaha! That was funny. Young guys are absolute scallywags. It's like the atomic Sit Up they used to do in high school, on a weight bench. Fortunately, I saw it before it was attempted on me.

 

[CB Jones]

Bwhahaha! That was funny. Young guys are absolute scallywags. It's like the atomic Sit Up they used to do in high school, on a weight bench. Fortunately, I saw it before it was attempted on me.

Ahhhh the good old days.

Now a days If you would pull an atomic sit-up prank on someone they would probably arrest you for assault

 

[Anarax]

Perhaps because as one of my students ( an army doctor specialising in brain trauma) says you don't understand.

That's great you have a student who's an army doctor specializing in brain trauma. Are you referring to a Neurologist? Nothing I stated was inaccurate about more defense mechanisms on in place to protect the brain opposed to the skin. I never contested the findings of what the CTE articles said. However; your interpretation is too inaccurate and your application is very broad. You cited numerous articles, but you went beyond what the articles stated by saying any contact to the head results in permanent brain damage.

You are on about skin bruising, I'm talking about the brain bruising which is likely to happen without any signs of bruising on the skin.

That wasn't your original point(s). See your quotes below

Getting black eyes is being hit in the head, getting hit in the head is dangerous

When your head gets hit, it doesn't have to be hard to cause damage

you can take a small hit in sports but there is still damage, keep repeating those blows and the damage is cumulative

So if it's hard enough to bruise the skin how hard do you think the brain hit the skull?

 

[_Simon_]

The worst black eye I ever had, I gave to myself. Had a big, strong dog, Zambuka. A wonderfully sweet pup.

This is him on his twelfth birthday. [We were heading out on the town.]
View attachment 21257

Anyway, after the dojo one night I was laying down on a heavy, old fashioned, fold out couch watching TV. Zambuka came trotting over with his toy, one of those hard rubber rings. He wanted some play time. So I took the ring and would curl it toward me, him fighting like mad to pull back. He'd bunch the carpet and pull the whole couch. I'd curl and pull him toward me.

He let go. I was in mid hard tug, my other arm holding the back of the couch because he was so strong. Punched myself square in the eye. And man, it hurt. That black eye was one for the books. Total above and below the eye, jet black and purple. Looked like something from a car accident. Actually, it looked like it was painted on, that's how dark it was.

And, of course, in the following weeks I ran into every single person I knew. And most said the same things, "Still doing that Karate, huh." Or "You still block with your face, chump?" All in good fun, mind you. Wish I had a pic of it, it would make me laugh today.

Oooouch :S

But what a beautiful dog! When they wanna play, it's playtime