Why does MMA count as an own martial art now ?

Discussion in 'MMA' started by JohnnyEnglish, Aug 2, 2015.

  1. Tez3

    Tez3 Sr. Grandmaster

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    Only animals with horns can gore people.

    That's fairly simple to answer, in Asia there is far less of a division between everyday life and religion, what they do everyday and in martial arts is part and parcel of a whole. In the West we put everything into compartments, this is work, this is sports, this is a hobby, this is religion, they don't have anything to do with each other whereas in the East these things are all tied into together so you find the same attention to religion in martial arts as you do in everyday life. In the West we don't have that.


    Mixed Martial Arts take their perspective and their foundation from the TMA's they are made up of.
     
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  2. tigercrane

    tigercrane Yellow Belt

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    I can pick up a pointy object and gore someone with it, but I digress. ;)

    Your quote: "Mixed Martial Arts take their perspective and their foundation from the TMA's they are made up of."

    Thank you for taking the time to reply but it does not really answer the question posed by Johnny about why some people call it an Art on its own.

    In your opinion, what defines any given art an art? Is it a set of principles, techniques, concepts, philosophy, a combination thereof or none of it?

    Anyways, it was a good discussion and I enjoyed the input from you and others, peace!
     
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  3. Tez3

    Tez3 Sr. Grandmaster

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    I don't call MMA 'an art', it's what it says it is... mixed martial arts. Why do some people call it an art? I don't know you'd have to ask them but have to say most people I know just call it MMA and get on with training. The question of whether it's an art or not doesn't come up. I will also say that 'Johnny' hates MMA and disparages it, I believe the OP is just a diatribe against something he doesn't like therefore doesn't reflect the truth about MMA just his opinion.

    The reason I picked up your word 'gore ( and I agree you can gore someone with a pointy object but we don't use weapons in MMA) is because it give entirely the wrong impression of what MMAers do. I have seen thousands of live fights and a great many televised/videoed ones, the amount of injuries or damage to fighters in all those fights is tiny, far less than in soccer or rugby, certainly far less than in horse racing where deaths of jockeys are surprisingly high. The worse injury I have seen live is a broken leg, that happened when two fighters kicked at the same time clashing legs, one broke, that's something that wouldn't be unique to MMA but could happen in any kicking style. The injuries I've seen have been consistent with most martial arts, split lips, a broken nose, strains and sprains. After fights it's common for opponents to get together to chat about their fight, exchange techniques and have a beer together, the level of sportsmanship is high. The intent to wound and maim isn't in fighters minds, it's tactics, techniques and trying to win against an opponent, yes of course they are fighting but then so do boxers and that's an accepted sport.
     
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  4. Danny T

    Danny T Senior Master

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    Where did the martial systems come from and why? What was the purpose for codifying the martial systems and its participants in religion, moral values, and lifestyles?
    All combat has rules of engagement and manners.
    Do you want your martial participants to conduct themselves when at peace the same as when in combat?
    Today some martial arts training include enlightenment, humility, and some even espouse some religion. But not all. I believe within the training if it is emphasized humility and respect can develop. If someone is really interested in what a school or gym has to offer in the way of training they will do what is required of them to train. If acting humbly is required they will act humble but are they? If being respectful is required they will act respectfully but are they actually Respectful?
    Some are, some aren't.
    People will do what is required of them to get what they want but that doesn't mean they have changed.
    Most participants in the martial arts are good humble and respectful persons to begin with. For them training simply reinforces at a higher level and expounds what they already are.
    The MMA Show is different from MMA Training. One is for selling tickets for entertainment. It is loud, brash, and in your face selling selling selling! It is also a very psychological game for selling and to mentally beat the opponent. It is using the 'Art of War'; which by the way is a very highly touted book within the martial arts.
    Within the MMA communities (from the U.S, Mexico, Canada, Brazil, Europe, the Middle East, and Japan) most all I have had experience with have been very respectful, hard working, and open to what will help them be better in their competitions. Not all have been such but most are. Now if you have experienced what happens when a fighter is in fight mode especially toward the end of their fight camp where they are tired, sore and hurting, hungry and annoyed from their weight cutting think about how any of us feel when we are mentally and physically exhausted from work and then training and we are hungry we aren't real pleasant. We aren't real humble and respectful. I'm not anyway, I just want to eat, shower, and sleep. MMA is an awesome sport and if you were truly involved in it you would also see a completely different aspect than what is seen in the media.
     
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  5. TSDTexan

    TSDTexan Master of Arts

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    All valid points.
    Tony,
    For the purpose of being on the same page...
    Please if you would, give me a names of a few striking arts that are focused on doing major damage, other than western boxing.
     
  6. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    If you haven't learned humility you will not be able to recover from loss.

    Or in the case of mma be on your back getting punched in the face is one of the ultimate lessons in humility.
     
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  7. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    You should listen in to the dragon ball z discussions we have at our gym and then talk about nerds and fighters.

    Mark hunt posted on Facebook that he is looking out for the next war hammer movie.

    We take people off the street and put them in the ring in 12 weeks. Just normal people. Not fighters.
     
  8. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    Because it is. If I can show you a thing I don't have to logically validate its existence.

    It is like asking why is a table? I mean it is made of wood so therefore it is a tree.
     
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  9. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    OK post number whatever in a row.

    Let's look at the metaphysical junk that is involved in mma. And the first place I go is returning vets using mma to help combat PTSD.

    Fightland Specials MMA After War Video Blog FIGHTLAND

    Now you want spiritual. Here is your spiritual. I mean there is a link between mma and a larger collection of benefits that just goring people.

    Personally I think hard work done diligently creates a stronger character than navel contemplation.
     
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  10. Tony Dismukes

    Tony Dismukes MT Moderator Staff Member

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    Karate
    Muay Thai
    TKD
    Krav Maga
    Kempo
    Wing Chun
    etc

    When I say "focused on doing major damage" I just mean training to end the fight using strikes - whether by knocking the opponent out, breaking bones, or just causing enough pain to make the opponent quit. I'm not sure I can think of a striking-focused art that doesn't have that objective.

    In contrast, strikes in BJJ are usually intended to force a reaction from the opponent that can be used to control distance, set up a takedown, improve position, or sink in a submission.
     
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  11. TSDTexan

    TSDTexan Master of Arts

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    BJJ isn't known for advocating striking, and has mild aversion to remaining at striking range, against someone who is a striking artist.

    But like the mythical sirens of the sea, their goal is to drown sailors, not cross sabers with them.

    This is why I contend that a well rounded martial artist should be cross trained, starting with striking ranges, and develope to the degree where the are quite competent. But not stop there.
    Imho
    By the time a guy is first Dan in a striking art, he should already be a blue belt in JJ, and hungry to hit brown in JJ.

    Cross training closes gaps in a martial artist's skill set.

    Most fighters dont have a plan or skill set outside of kicking range either.

    I teach my students to have one.
     
  12. TSDTexan

    TSDTexan Master of Arts

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    Is Chun Kuk Do a martial art?
    Arguably, yes.
    It started with TSD as a base but has Direct injections of Karate and BJJ DNA.

    But it is a full on systematic approach.
    And still leaves a striker mindset more than a grappler's mind set. Yet it is a formal MMA.
     
  13. jezr74

    jezr74 Master of Arts

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    A triathlon is a multiple-stage competition involving the completion of three continuous and sequential endurance disciplines. While many variations of the sport exist, triathlon, in its most popular form, involves swimming, cycling, and running in immediate succession over various distances.

    Do you train for a triathlon, or do you train for swimming, cycling and running?

    This is how I see MMA.
     
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  14. RTKDCMB

    RTKDCMB Senior Master

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    Or you can learn a well rounded martial art.
     
  15. TSDTexan

    TSDTexan Master of Arts

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    Tell me, which single art has formalized training curriculum and methods for fighting at the following ranges
    1. Rifle, pistol, bow, slingshot etc. Ranges
    2. Handheld long weapons
    3. Kicking and short weapons
    4. Punching
    5. Trapping/throwing/tripping/Kido wrist locking and breaking
    6. clinching/elbows/knees/
    7. Headblows/shoulder striking.
    8. Ground fighting

    As far as I am aware... There is no single system teaching a full range spectrum, and fully handles transitions between ranges.
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2015
  16. RTKDCMB

    RTKDCMB Senior Master

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    No point putting an attacker on the ground if they are just going to get straight up and attack you again.
     
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  17. RTKDCMB

    RTKDCMB Senior Master

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    Except for the weapons, mine.
     
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  18. RTKDCMB

    RTKDCMB Senior Master

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    Aren't they those things that were chewing on the power cables of the Millennium Falcon in the asteroid after the battle of Hoth? :)
     
  19. TSDTexan

    TSDTexan Master of Arts

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    Those would be "mynocks"
     
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  20. TSDTexan

    TSDTexan Master of Arts

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    And which system, or art is that?123
     

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