Who's Taekwondo on this Board – Rank, Years?

[Gizmo]

According to the database available on the Kukkiwon website, there are 263 9th Dan holders worldwide (212 of them in Korea) and five 10th Dan holders (stand from December 2002).

One of the things that really make me upset is the fact that there are over 14000 (yes fourteen thousand) kids who were awarded 4th Poom. To be honest, I can't figure out how a kid can receive what is in fact an equivalent of 4th degree black belt...

World's gone crazy...

Gizmo

 

[Disco]

That's only ONE of the reasons why todays TKD is looked down upon.

 

[cali_tkdbruin]

Anyway, mostly for people looking and perhaps joining us....please list yourself, your rank, years in, when you joined Taekwondo, please.

artyon:

Well, back to the question at hand...
Me, I'm a first dan WTF BLACK. I've only been training for the past 5 years. There's is still so, so much to learn, but I never get enough and enjoy practicing our Art tremendously. I hope to continue training for a long time. TKD Kicks!
:asian:

 

[hardheadjarhead]

According to the database available on the Kukkiwon website, there are 263 9th Dan holders worldwide (212 of them in Korea) and five 10th Dan holders (stand from December 2002).

One of the things that really make me upset is the fact that there are over 14000 (yes fourteen thousand) kids who were awarded 4th Poom. To be honest, I can't figure out how a kid can receive what is in fact an equivalent of 4th degree black belt...

World's gone crazy...

Gizmo

AND there are all those Korean "ninth dans" in the U.S. who don't hold a Kukkiwon certificate. There is at least one in every major city in the U.S., I'd wager. All of them, it seems, were either national champions, were coaches of national teams, trained Korean Special Forces, were in the Special Forces, were bodyguards to the President of Korea, trained the National Police...or all of the above. Did I miss anything?


Regards,


Steve

 

[bignick]

AND there are all those Korean "ninth dans" in the U.S. who don't hold a Kukkiwon certificate. There is at least one in every major city in the U.S., I'd wager. All of them, it seems, were either national champions, were coaches of national teams, trained Korean Special Forces, were in the Special Forces, were bodyguards to the President of Korea, trained the National Police...or all of the above. Did I miss anything?

nope...you got most of the major points...

 

[Miles]

According to the database available on the Kukkiwon website, there are 263 9th Dan holders worldwide (212 of them in Korea) and five 10th Dan holders (stand from December 2002).

One of the things that really make me upset is the fact that there are over 14000 (yes fourteen thousand) kids who were awarded 4th Poom. To be honest, I can't figure out how a kid can receive what is in fact an equivalent of 4th degree black belt...

World's gone crazy...

Gizmo

Gizmo, the world has not gone crazy.

I was told this past Summer by Kim, Byung Sung, the International Division Director of the Kukkiwon that there have been 5 10th dans issued by Kukkiwon. Dr. Kim is the only 10th dan who is still alive.

Don't be upset by the use of the poom ranking. Pooms are expected to perform physically the same material as an adult. The poom means the student has the requisite physical aspects, he/she just has not had enough life experience to be a dan holder.

Now, how can there be 14,000 4th pooms? Pretty easy when you train in TKD nearly daily from age 5 and take the examination after age 15 but before age 18.

Miles

 

[Miles]

Poom is the rank given by many WTF schools to young students who have met all of the requirements of Dan testing but are too young to be considered adult black belts. This includes forms, sparring, breaking, and time spent in Tae Kwon Do. Our organization does not issue pooms. Within reasonable age limits, black belt is black belt if the requirements are met..

MichiganTKD,

At what age does your organization issue black belts?

If, to paraphrase you,the young students have met all the requirements of Dan testing, why not issue a poom? (this is exactly what the poom rank represents)

Miles

 

[TigerWoman]

I was at a tournament this weekend. There was a 7 year old 1st dan. Her father was the owner/instructor of the school. Also 1st dan. She competed in the grand championship, did an axe kick on one board. If all had missed though she would have won. In the prior contest, the way we judged breaking was that if someone missed their break, they get a point deducted, if missed all (3 for kids) a 5. In that category, most missed- 4-7 age group.

So, I figure if she started at age 4, she would possible get black at 8 under our time requirement. But also, we don't delineate responsibility. So, hypothetically if she was the only BB who showed up for our new "family" class in our school (she's in a different school though), she would be the instructor for the class.!!! I think really, our youngest is age 10, but even that age I don't agree giving a BB and therefore responsibility. The youngest BB I have seen instruct a class was a 15 yr. old in our school but that was before these "family" classes. Now none of the BB's or higher rank are coming, because these classes are 90% white belt and the class is catered to them. But the master occasionally misses, so the highest BB, is the instructor. Should be interesting when none (BB's) show up for evening classes. TW

 

[MichiganTKD]

MichiganTKD,

At what age does your organization issue black belts?

If, to paraphrase you,the young students have met all the requirements of Dan testing, why not issue a poom? (this is exactly what the poom rank represents)

Miles

Good question. I think the youngest the Instructors would accept granting a 1st Dan is 10 years old, and he better be exceptional. We don't grant pooms because our Grandmaster feels that if the requirements are met, 1st Dan is 1st Dan. We don't do everything the WTF says. Technically, a 17 year old could be considered for 4th Dan or poom. I doubt if we would ever have a Master Instructor that young. The other Masters would never accept it.

 

[Disco]

Originally Posted by hardheadjarhead
AND there are all those Korean "ninth dans" in the U.S. who don't hold a Kukkiwon certificate. There is at least one in every major city in the U.S., I'd wager. All of them, it seems, were either national champions, were coaches of national teams, trained Korean Special Forces, were in the Special Forces, were bodyguards to the President of Korea, trained the National Police...or all of the above. Did I miss anything?

Most likely, those are the one's who started their own kwans. Perhaps they are even some with the infamous "Airport Promotions". It's easy for someone not of American origin to start their own. We westerners just accept, it's called eastern mystic syndrome. The thing that befuddles me is that people can't see the forest for the trees. Almost everybody is against having young black belts in general, but look who instituted the program. It was the one's who brought the discipline to America in the first place. It's called the retirement fund. Kind of hard to blame them in a way, they just gave out what the consumer wanted and the heck with so called ethics and martial arts integrity.

 

[MichiganTKD]

In my area (Ypsilanti), there is at least one Instructor who claims 9th Dan in the organization he founded. Kwan heads are probably going to be or at least claim 9th Dan. However, it is also common for Instructors to found an organization that may or may not be affiliated with a larger organization, then claim 9th Dan in that organization (the one they founded). Very easy way to weasel a high rank. Claim to have founded an organization that only your school belongs to, then claim 9th Dan in that organization. Along with the other examples Disco mentioned.

 

[Homy]

1st dan Black. will have been black for 2 years (in december)and able to go for 2nd dan(though i wont be..to much time spent instructing others and not enough time on my own stuff)
started january 2000

Our club gives 'kids BB' but theyre on a slightly different criteria to the adults.
when they are 16(and able/willing) they may sit for their proper BB
so i guess its kinda like a poom.Although they're unable to go any higher in the dans until they are adults

 

[TigerWoman]

1st dan Black. will have been black for 2 years (in december)and able to go for 2nd dan(though i wont be..to much time spent instructing others and not enough time on my own stuff)
started january 2000

So, you only spent two years getting to 1st Dan Black? I went sometimes eight times a week and was a blue belt at two years. I tested for 1st dan at 4 years and I was right on schedule. Also, WTF, ITF style or what style?
TW

 

[Sarah]

Homy, it can’t have been only 2yrs! Did you do some serious double gradings or something?

You need to get training so you can go for your 2nd Dan, do we get to see you grade? I would so love to be there!

1st dan Black. will have been black for 2 years (in december)and able to go for 2nd dan(though i wont be..to much time spent instructing others and not enough time on my own stuff)
started january 2000

Our club gives 'kids BB' but theyre on a slightly different criteria to the adults.
when they are 16(and able/willing) they may sit for their proper BB
so i guess its kinda like a poom.Although they're unable to go any higher in the dans until they are adults

 

[Zepp]

1st dan Black. will have been black for 2 years (in december)and able to go for 2nd dan(though i wont be..to much time spent instructing others and not enough time on my own stuff)
started january 2000

Re-reading Homy's post, it sounds more like he has been a black belt for 2 years. Although, 2 years is a pretty short time to to go from 1st to 2nd. Waiting a little longer is probably a good idea.

My instructor's been hinting that he would like me to test for my 2nd dan sometime next summer, which will have been about 3 years since my last test. I'm feeling kind of iffy about it at this point, but it's not like I have to decide anytime soon.

By the way, welcome to the board Homy.

 

[TigerWoman]

Zepp, just curious What is your breaking requirements for 2nd? TW

 

[Zepp]

Zepp, just curious What is your breaking requirements for 2nd? TW

Grandmaster Son requires us to be able to break four 1"-thick boards 2 different ways; one with hands/arms, and the other with a kick. As I've said before, for us, breaking isn't considered to be especially important. It's mostly just a measure of our confidence and our willingness to hit something that doesn't give way as easily as a pad or bag. :asian:

 

[TigerWoman]

Well, both of those aren't easy but I would trade you. I would do that 4 board kick one in a jump back on my good leg/knee and probably a palm strike for the other. Alot of wood gone fast. Fast and painless. sigh! TW

 

[Zepp]

Well, both of those aren't easy but I would trade you.

No thanks, I've read your posts about your breaking requirements.

 

[Aqua4ever]

I'm yellow striped (yellow belt with black stripe) and been in tkd since Feb 04