What makes a Martial Arts System Practical for Physical Self-Defense?

[stanly stud]

Hey Gerry, I've been on this forum long enough to know that Jobo can be abrasive in his posts and frequently declines to do anything to elaborate or sell others on his ideas, but I agree with his views on fitness far more often than I disagree. I can say from personal experience training myself and a lot of other people that 5 minutes of high intensity work 2x/week is sufficient time to make huge improvements to fitness and tremendous gains in strength, though my primary workouts are more like 7 minutes 1x/week. I don't currently have the experience to feel confident training people at that level of intensity without more equipment than the usual martial arts studio has space for but I have no doubt that others can do it.

I think there are (at least) 2 primary roadblocks to clear communication around this topic:

1. Our definitions of "fitness". I don't know what you consider fit, but a lot of people who actually work out (not to imply that you don't!) seem to really focus on endurance, how long one can continue with physical exertion, as their primary metric and then maybe body composition as a secondary metric and frequently impact on health as a tertiary measurement - strength may or may not even be on the list. I've got 2 main metrics, 1) How do your structural and metabolic adaptations enable or inhibit your ability to perform your desired activities? 2) How do your structural and metabolic adaptations improve or degrade your health? So, if an exercise program supports these 2 requirements well then I would deem it to be an effective fitness routine.
   
   For example, I have no interest in running a 10k or anything longer so I don't train for that and wouldn't be very good at it if I had to go run one right now. If someone else is really invested in distance running they may think I'm terribly unfit and more relevant to this conversation, would be correct (by their definition) in stating that there is no way I could be fit without putting in at least a couple of hours a week spent on running. If their definition of fit was being able to go all out fighting for their life for 30-180 seconds without getting winded until after the conflict was resolved (the definition that more closely matches this thread) then 5 minutes 2x/week of true high intensity work is going to be both more efficient and vastly superior to running for a few hours several days a week.
   
   
2. Our definitions of high intensity. A lot of people think high intensity, they think really working up a sweat, or maybe doing reps until they're really feeling an intense burn. I mean working as hard as you can without rest until you physically can't do anything but carefully walk afterwards. If you have the skill and the grit to do this it won't take more than 10 minutes and if you focus on nothing but big, compound movements it won't take more than 5. Some people will say, "Oh, I can work that hard for 30 minutes". No, they are holding back a lot, or they're taking big breaks, if they can do it for 30 minutes. As just 2 examples, I've had both a professional cyclist in his 20's and a newly promoted BJJ black belt need to lie down on the floor and try not to vomit after a 7 minute (total, start to finish) workout. That level of work produces a tremendous adaptive response and isn't maintainable at a frequency of much more than 1x/per week for a lot of people, 2x is definitely plenty.

So, I'm not saying that you're wrong, but I'm also not willing to concede that you are right. I'm saying that we may have different fitness goals and that you may not understand what kind of training I'm (and I think Jobo) are advocating.

Cheers!

Michael

EDIT to add: Relevant to this thread: I only offer private 1-on-1 instruction and I can't imagine training a group all at the same time to this level of intensity, so it could be a tough add for a full martial arts class.

5 to 10 mins HIIT training will not achieve the same results as sparring, bag work, staminia work on the road, unless you can teach pro mma fighters a new way as they all are clearly clueless to your wonderfull System.
Sounds like you're selling this as you say you train people. HIIT cardio or weight Workouts are not new. Most HIIT Workouts bring injuries look at dorian yates.

 

[stanly stud]

no, you already appear to be stalking me, im not encouraging you to take it further

I want to see these results of your training system.
Is this too much to ask.
Talk the talk but walk the walk.
You're talking about it non stop.

 

[jobo]

5 to 10 mins HIIT training will not achieve the same results as sparring, bag work, staminia work on the road, unless you can teach pro mma fighters a new way as they all are clearly clueless to your wonderfull System.
Sounds like you're selling this as you say you train people. HIIT cardio or weight Workouts are not new. Most HIIT Workouts bring injuries look at dorian yates.

the whole point of the post ( if you read beyond the first paragraph)is its not suposed to train mma fighters at least not on its own, and its not, as covered again in the post ,hiit, thats largly because one of the Is in hiit stands for interval and there are no intervals

 

[jobo]

I want to see these results of your training system.
Is this too much to ask.
Talk the talk but walk the walk.
You're talking about it non stop.

your becoming more than a little obsesed with me and its setting off my bunny boiler radar,

now to be fair your not the first person to get an unhealthy obsesion with me, but you are the first to also be a trained killer,

so il pass thanks

 

[stanly stud]

the whole point of the post ( if you read beyond the first paragraph)is its not suposed to train mma fighters at least not on its own, and its not, as covered again in the post ,hiit, thats largly because one of the Is in hiit stands for interval and there are no intervals

It makes no difference post up you doing it. If you are so ripped & fit then please Show us. Don't waffle Show us. Share this Amazing New System!

 

[jobo]

It makes no difference post up you doing it. If you are so ripped & fit then please Show us. Don't waffle Show us. Share this Amazing New System!

see post above

strange man on the internet keeps asking for video of me? i wonder if thats a good idea ?

 

[stanly stud]

see post above

strange man on the internet keeps asking for video of me? i wonder if thats a good idea ?

Ok then i am calling B#llshi#t on your whole Story. No need to mention it again. You have been owned & exposed!

 

[jobo]

Ok then i am calling ******** on your whole Story. No need to mention it again. You have been owned & exposed!

exsposed is really the issue that concerns me, strange you brought it up

 

[JowGaWolf]

no, you already appear to be stalking me, im not encouraging you to take it further

What?!?!? there's a funny Jobo too?

 

[jobo]

Ok then i am calling ******** on your whole Story. No need to mention it again. You have been owned & exposed!

i was having a chat with my young neice about internet danger, i said if some man asks what colour knicker you have on or asks for live exercise shots run a mile and would you belive it two days later it happens to me, talk about coincidence

 

[jobo]

What?!?!? there's a funny Jobo too?

im always being funny, its just you dont always understand my humour

 

[JowGaWolf]

im also being funny, its just you dont always understand my humour

lol.. sounds like that other Jobo that I don't like is trying to come back to the surface. Fight it with all your might. Spare 2021.

 

[stanly stud]

Jobo uses this

 

[dvcochran]

im always being funny, its just you dont always understand my humour

Nail on the head.
But I am certain that is true for all of us sometimes.

 

[MetalBoar]

5 to 10 mins HIIT training will not achieve the same results as sparring, bag work, staminia work on the road, unless you can teach pro mma fighters a new way as they all are clearly clueless to your wonderfull System.
Sounds like you're selling this as you say you train people. HIIT cardio or weight Workouts are not new. Most HIIT Workouts bring injuries look at dorian yates.

You seem to be intentionally misinterpreting what I've said and since you don't strike me as stupid I assume you're being intentionally obtuse, which I don't really understand as I think I've been nothing but polite to you and pretty much everyone else on this forum. Regardless I'll try to expand on my earlier post to address your concerns.

I expect that there are MMA fighters who use the same or a similar protocol for a portion of their training. In no place did I say that you could do nothing but HIT strength training and go compete in the UFC. What I've said is that you should train to meet your goals. If your fitness goal (notice I have not addressed any other aspect of training) is for self defense, as self defense is the subject of this thread, ideally you want to be able to work at maximum effort without flagging for something short of 5 minutes. If that is your goal you do not need to do hours of road work, you need to train as hard as you can for 5 minutes on a consistent basis in a fashion that will produce a metabolic state as close as possible to what you are going to encounter in a self defense situation. You also need to be as strong as practical in order be able to perform your strikes or apply your grappling as effectively as possible.

I have said that someone who is willing and able to work really hard can get really strong working out something in the neighborhood of 10 minutes/week and I'll go further and state that such a workout will have a significantly beneficial impact on their metabolic adaptations for high intensity, short duration activity such as a self defense encounter. I stand by that and I think it's a great way to go because it leaves you with a lot of time to work on skill development (of whatever sort you choose, sparring, bag work, etc.) in the art you're learning for self defense.

I'm not selling anything to anyone on here (I've got no books, videos, nor anything else for sale online) and in my commercial gym I will and have given just about anyone who's serious a month for free with no obligations as long as I've still got room for new clients, so I stand by my product. There are plenty of people who train in the same or a similar fashion and "my system" was hardly originated nor exclusive to me and nowhere have I claimed that I'm doing anything new, nor that I think should be seen as revolutionary. HIT has been around since before I was born and while I have added my own refinements to what I do it is by and large based on the work of others.

Which brings me to the next point, HIT, not HIIT, nor HIIRT - those are different things. I'm talking about high intensity resistance training, working primarily with big compound movements, working to deep, momentary muscular failure with little or no rest between sets. I personally prefer a slow protocol, measuring time under load rather than counting reps, on machines if you don't have a really reliable spotter, though free weights and body weight are other good options for what I do. There are a number of other protocols that qualify as HIT that I think are similarly good.

Resistance training in general and HIT in particular are very safe. With a slow protocol and and emphasis on good form risk of injury is extremely low. I've had zero client injuries over 15 years and thousands of training sessions, I'm satisfied with that.

Cheers!

Michael

 

[WaterGal]

Most of the discussion on this thread seems to be about exercise fitness training, and while of course being in better shape will help you be more successful at defending yourself, fitness training seems to me to be mostly independent of system or style.

So the question is, "what makes a martial arts system practical for self-defense". And I think there are two questions tangled up in there, which is first, basically, "what does practical self-defense mean?", and then "how do you teach people that?".

For the first.... I think that "practical self-defense" (for a civilian) means that an average but dedicated person, who attends class a couple times a week for a year or two, should be able to successfully defend themselves against an average unarmed brawler/creeper/bully.

For the second... I think there are different ways to do that, but I think the training needs to have that that goal in mind. Training needs to be done, at least some of the time, against a resisting opponent. Students should train to defend against realistic attacks/scenarios. (Training to defend against unrealistic "attacker" behavior is a problem I've seen a lot.) Students should practice techniques often enough to build muscle memory. Techniques should be... not necessarily simple, per se, but as simple as possible to be successful, not relying too much on on finicky things like pressure points or grabbing a person's hand while they're punching.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Most of the discussion on this thread seems to be about exercise fitness training,

Most people like to take fitness training before MA training. I like to decide which MA ability that I want to develop first. I then find a equipment training that can help me.

I want to develop strong grip -> I then find a equipment training that can help me.

I want to develop powerful foot sweep -> I then find a equipment training that can help me.

 

[stanly stud]

Listen guys & gals this is intensity not some half baked training programm that no one wants to demonstrate.

 

[stanly stud]

JCVD still Trains today in the gym reps & Sets, volume. Him & sly stallone trained with Arnold & franco

 

[stanly stud]

A funny clip but sly still Trains today. Franco was a boxer too