What makes a Martial Arts System Practical for Physical Self-Defense?

Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Talk' started by JowGaWolf, Jan 2, 2021.

  1. JowGaWolf

    JowGaWolf Grandmaster

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    What makes a Martial Arts System Practical for Physical Self-Defense?

    I'm curious to see the perspectives of others.
     
  2. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    The ability to enforce your will on people who want to enforce their will on you.
     
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  3. Flying Crane

    Flying Crane Sr. Grandmaster

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    It has a set of principles and a systematic and methodical approach to training that is effective in teaching you to move efficiently and powerfully, and that can be expressed with a body of useful techniques.
     
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  4. Hanzou

    Hanzou Grandmaster

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    Full contact sparring.
     
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  5. isshinryuronin

    isshinryuronin Black Belt

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    Keeping in mind that the individuals involved (teacher and student) play a huge part in this question, as far as the system/style itself is concerned, it should possess the following:

    Have originally been designed for self-defense so the structure is there.
    Not been diluted for sport, competition or exercise emphasis.
    Be practiced so every technique and step has direct and effective application.
    Be based on sound biomechanical principles.
    Have grabbing/control techniques to manipulate the opponent (even "striking arts").
    Have adaptability to allow one to flow with everchanging situations.
    Use of tai sabaki, stressing change of angles for defense and entering.

    No doubt there are a few more elements that can be added, but these are the critical, essential, ones that popped up quickly in my mind. If the system is lacking in one or more of these, its self-defense capability will be limited.
     
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  6. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    That depends on some perspective. How much responsibility do we put on the system, vs the person?

    I’d expect a system of that nature to include some fitness-oriented activity, some simple techniques that can be applied in a wide range of circumstances, and significant time working against a resisting opponent.

    The short answer is @drop bear’s reply. That’s the outcome by which you can judge. Can serious participants do that? If so, it’s likely the system is working.
     
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  7. oftheherd11

    oftheherd11 Yellow Belt

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    I think the bolded is too often taken for granted.
     
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  8. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

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    You are traveling in a remote area that police is not available. Something happen and you need to knock out 2 bad guys who has knife. Does your MA system provide you some tools to do that?

     
  9. isshinryuronin

    isshinryuronin Black Belt

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    :)


    The question was not concerning the individual's strength of will or how much he works out. I agree that these are important things, as I posted, but the question centers on the SYSTEM. A tough, fast, aggressive, strong guy, but untrained, with a club may be able to force his will upon another, but would you call his method a system?

    A system must be able to be replicated and be effective for the average, hard working, practitioner. Flying Crane was on point with his brief answer - I just detailed some of the principles.

    That system is called "RunFast Fu." Its practitioners always survive an encounter with anything short of a gun or arrow. Seriously, I would view with grave doubt anyone who professes a system that can reliably allow an unarmed man take care of two knife wielders. IMO, it would take an elite trained combat fighter AND two morons holding the knives.
     
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  10. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

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    The concern are:

    - You may not be able to run (such as you are on a bus).
    - It's somebody else who needs your help (such as the bus driver is raped right in front of your eyes).

    Not if you have this belt on your waist. Of course your MA system should help you to train how to use it.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2021
  11. jobo

    jobo Grandmaster

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    well the SYSTEM needs to build fitness as part of its process, in that i mean all levels of fitness, strengh cardio, balance reactions speed etal.

    if it doesnt do that and the person is not devekoping these elsewhere, then its fundementally flawed, in its it's intended purpose of being viable if your attacked

    there after it need a few high % technques, that are dekivered 3xtremly well, nothing flash, nothing thats likely to get yout leg grabbed, what these actually are depends to a large extent on point one above

    and has been said above, some actual " fighting" however this is delivered, through sport or hard sparring
     
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  12. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    Is it the system's responsibility to build fitness? If someone attends 3 hours a week (pretty common, perhaps even on the high side), they're not going to build comprehensive fitness AND fighting skills in that time.
     
  13. hoshin1600

    hoshin1600 Senior Master

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    • the system must have the aim of self defense. not as a secondary by product of training.
    • It must be centered around a weapons based system with H2H seamlessly incorporated.
    • It must take into consideration stress and the human adrenal response to fear and train for it.
    • It must understand the reality that each individual exists in, meaning a civilian has a different situation than a police officer and the art needs to understand the differences and train to it.
    • the training must resemble as closely as possible the reality it will be used in, in order for the brain to recognize and apply the training.
    • it should take into account the individuals physical and emotional limitations. just because you teach a women to stick her thumbs into the eyes of an attacker does not mean she has the emotional stomach to do it.
    • it should set up a frame work of moral self worth and prep the individual to make that decision on when to "pull the trigger".
    • It should educate the individual about the aftermath of self defense.
     
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  14. isshinryuronin

    isshinryuronin Black Belt

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    There is no denying fitness and strength is important in MA, but....Is it the system's responsibility to do 300 kicks and 400 punches per workout? For the counts to be so fast that the practitioner barely has time to reset? To do 30 pushups? For the student to put 100% effort into his practice?

    No system details such actions (except perhaps encouraging the last one, but even this is a personal choice). It is up to the instructor and student to decide how serious they approach their art. Providing the student's effort, most all systems inherently set the stage for fitness by the mere fact there is fast and powerful movement involved. But it is up to the student to push themselves to take advantage of it.

    Some schools spend 25% of class time on calisthenics to build fitness, others, much less, leaving it to the student to jog, lift, or exercise on their own time. I don't think this is a function of the system, but the instructor. Fitness, like competence, is the result of effort - Effort is not something any system (MA or other) can supply. It is up to the practitioner to be responsible for it.
     
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  15. jobo

    jobo Grandmaster

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    you cant do it unless the student is going to buy into it, but yes, if what your selling is a practical sd system, that need to be included, or least declared up front, that its actual practical application is heavily dependent on the student working out elsewhere

    and there arnt many sd situations where an ability to do three hundred kicks will be an important factor, so id leave that out for now
     
  16. jobo

    jobo Grandmaster

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    well which is most important? to sd,

    allowing that they are both essential in some ratio, or other so 2 hours fitness and one fighting or the other way round, if you prioriting it differently

    just saying lets do one and not the other, isnt perhaps the best way forward
     
  17. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    Yeah, which is why I didn't say that.
     
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  18. stanly stud

    stanly stud Blue Belt

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    well you know some martial arts schools have also cardio, weight training machines..etc.
    Cardio fitness is done outside the dojo in most cases.
    No one unless you are say a pro athlete has time to do both in martial arts schools. The time spent learning Kata is enough. ground school stuff...etc.
    Bruce Lee trained mostly on his own & a great deal at home.
    so how do you solve the problem? I myself cycle to work & anywhere i can. I walk everywhere. Weekends running with a friend who is a much better runner than me so i get a good workout. I box on a box sack at home.
    It´s not a question of priority but more of time managment on your part.
     
  19. jobo

    jobo Grandmaster

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    it most certainly can be done, it just not that common, it seems.

    many years ago a dojo i was at devoted around a half of the run time to fitness, the net result was after three months i was literally fighting fit,

    the question was what should a self defence system have and my answer is a high level of fitness component,

    if your selling a sd system that doesnt include that your taking money under false pretences, unless you at least tell them that it of very questionable value unless they take up the slack in their own time
     
  20. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    If In a practical sense fitness is a fighting skill. Mabye 3 days a week doesn't really set someone up for self defense as well as might be hoped.

    So yes it is the systems responsibility if fitness is a requirement to fight.123
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2021

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