Walmart Steals Your Cart Because You Won't Let Them Check Your Receipt

Discussion in 'The Study' started by Bob Hubbard, Feb 25, 2009.

  1. David43515

    David43515 Master Black Belt

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    Actually, unless you have caused a disturbance and they get a restraining order, they can`t ban you from any retail outlet that is open to the general public.

    Even though it`s private property, they open it to everyone for public use. So unless they`ve taken the steps of getting the court to songle you out, you`re still allowed to go as often as you like.Just never cause a disturbance. Keep your voice low, be polite, and behave professionaly. If someone does kick you out, just to piss them off,ask them for a job application. Legally they have to give one to anyone who asks or they`re in violation of Federal law.
     
  2. Archangel M

    Archangel M Senior Master

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    Ehhh...I don't know about that man. We enforce criminal trespass on people banned from stores all the time. They just have to have been formally advised in writing that they are no longer welcome on the property.

    The store shows us the signed "bar notice" and we lock em up. No "court order" necessary.
     
  3. Carol

    Carol Crazy like a...

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    Which federal law are they violating? Do you have a citation?
     
  4. Archangel M

    Archangel M Senior Master

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    Similarly, if the store tells you to leave and you refuse you can be charged with trespass on private property.
     
  5. Jdokan

    Jdokan Black Belt

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    years ago I used to work at a local department store chain called Almy's...They would make all the employee open their purchases and have the receipt checked when they left the store at closing time...The day shift did not have to go through that process....as a result most of those that stole from that store did so as a either on their day shift or as a regullar customer.....
     
  6. David43515

    David43515 Master Black Belt

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    Equal opportunity employment laws. Obviously you don`t have to hire everyone who applies for a job, but you have to allow anyone and everyone who wants to fill out an application to do so.
     
  7. David43515

    David43515 Master Black Belt

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    A few years ago in Toledo a close friend went christmas shopping at a Meijers department store. They`re very similar to a Walmart, just a smaller chain. My friend has severe PTSD and really hates crowds, so he likes the fact he can shop at 3:00 a.m. and mostly have the place to himself.

    He dresses like a cross between a lumberjack and a hells angel, so sometimes he gets a few odd looks. This particular night the store staff was doing stocking while he was shopping. He went to the toys area to get some things for his little boy and one of the clercks had apparently stepped away from the video games case while they were stocking it. Since the game he wanted to buy was sitting on top of a cart of games waiting to be put in the case, my friend took one off the pile and put it in his own cart. Apparently that was when an employee who had been following him (without my friend knowing) stepped up behind him and roughly grabbed him from behind. There was no warning, verbal or otherwise, just a quick grab from behind in a mostly deserted store at 3:00 a.m.

    My friend reacted by elbowing the employee in the ribs and throwing him to the ground in less time than it takes to say it. The employee began screaming that he was store security and yelling for help. When the manager arrived he stuck by his employee, despite the fact that under Ohio law he`d just assaulted a customer. They "banned" my friend from the store.....without bothering to get any personal info or take a picture, or without calling the police. I laughed and laughed when I heard about it because he is literally the most upright and honest person I know (former Military Police, teaches Sunday school, etc) but I was so suprised that they would leave security to people who are so poorly trained in how to approach customers.
     
  8. Carol

    Carol Crazy like a...

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    Neither the US DOL nor the EEOC have such a law as federal statute. I'll buy a year's supporting membership for the first person that can cite where in 29 CFR 1614 (or any other federal statute) states that employers must give job apps to any and all people that ask. Offer only applies to the laws that are on the books as of today. ;)

    The EEOC makes many practice recommendations. Some are followed as religiously as if they were statutory law. The EEOC frowns on asking what a person's religion is unless you're hiring a rabbi, for example. Other recommendations are often ignored. The EEOC frowns on pre-employment credit checks, for example. However, the EEOC does not have statutes that say it is illegal to ask a person's religion. The statute states that it is illegal to discriminate based on religion. Where the practice recommendations come in to play is to give employers guidelines in difficult situations. Example -- if a Jewish-looking applicant interviews for a job and you have a position that may require work that has to be done after sundown on Friday, don't ask if the applicant is Jewish. Instead, state the work hours that are required for the job and ask the applicant if he has any concerns or obligations that would interfere with working such a schedule.

    For a retailer or other organization that primarily relies on unskilled labor, it may be a good practice to offer a job application to everyone that asks for one, in order to not show any sort of discrimination among protected boundaries. This is one of the reasons why retailers have implemented job app kiosks. But giving a job application to all comers is a bit over the top, IMO.
     
  9. jks9199

    jks9199 Administrator Staff Member

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    Perhaps in your state. I assure you that, in Virginia, a business can indeed bar anyone from the property, even if it's nominally open to the public. The only limitation is that the person cannot be barred solely for being part of a protected class; Bill's Special Store cannot bar old people or blacks or Christians or a person simply for being one of these. But they can bar that individual for their own actions, on an individualized basis.

    I've done it -- and I've charged and prosecuted people for it, successfully.

    Heck, one jurisdiction used to (I think they stopped it after I had a chance to ask a judge in a classroom setting about it!) routinely allow people to plead shoplifting down to trespass, as a violation of the close by entering the store to steal rather than shop.
     
  10. jks9199

    jks9199 Administrator Staff Member

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    No, you don't. You simply can't prohibit them from applying because they are part of a protected class.

    The distinction may seem subtle -- and it is often misunderstood.
     
  11. David43515

    David43515 Master Black Belt

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    Well I went back and read through about 6 different laws from civil rights , to americans with disabilities, to commerce, to everything else and I hate to admit that you are correct.

    I was mistaken, it`s not a violation unless they refuse you as a member of a protected class.
     
  12. David43515

    David43515 Master Black Belt

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    Go back and reread what I said, and what you said. I said they can`t bar you from the place unless you are causing a disturbance (or have done so previously). You said they can bar an individual for "thier own actions". Same thing really.

    We had a case where a waitress got angry at her boss and didn`t show up for work in the afternoon. He told her that she couldn`t come back to finish her schedule that week until he had spoken to HR. She came back the next evening not to work but as a customer and he lost his cool and began yelling at her that she was banned from the premises. The local police were enjoying a cup of coffee two tables over and told him that since she wasn`t creating any disturbance and the place was open to the public he couldn`t ban here from the premisies without a restraining order. If she was doing something wrong he could, but all she had done was come in and order dinner.

    I`m not a lawyer, and I don`t play one on TV....but that was how the police explained it to me.
     
  13. jks9199

    jks9199 Administrator Staff Member

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    Note that I specified Virginia; I don't know where the incident you describe with the waitress happened. In Virginia, a business can bar you from their property for nothing more than simply not wanting you there. The discrimination aspect is really civil, not criminal. If asked, I'd advise a business owner that barring someone because they're a Reformed Zoroastrian probably is unwise, and probably opens them up to civil liability, and they might want to talk to a lawyer -- but they can do it. They'd probably lose it at trial, too, if that was their sole reason. But it's their property, and they can bar someone for nothing more than "I don't like you." Just like you could in your house.

    Nor is that what you said; you specified that the person to be barred had to have caused a disturbance (what is a "disturbance" for that purpose?) AND that a restraining order had to be obtained. Again, in Virginia, written notice helps prove that notice was made -- but is not required. Some cops I know have a perception that there's some magic effect of giving someone notice in the presence of law enforcement; there's not. So long as the victim/property owner will come to court, I can charge a person based on their statement that they've told the person to leave, and the suspect has remained, or that the suspect returned after being told not to come back. I do need to be able to show that they had notice, from a property owner or person with authority, that entering the property would be trespassing.

    Different states, different rules. I can't address another state's laws. In fact, since I'm not a lawyer -- note that what I address in Virginia's is very limited, and I don't give specific legal guidance or advice...
     

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