Taser Defense?

Discussion in 'General Self Defense' started by FearlessFreep, Jan 4, 2008.

  1. tellner

    tellner Senior Master

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    Taser Parties? Here's your must-have accessory.

    Comes pre-loaded with "Shock the Monkey", "Electric Slide"....
     
  2. LawDog

    LawDog Master Black Belt

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    Way back when the tasers first arrived on the open market they did end up in the streets. What a nightmare.
    Defense against a taser would first have to be narrowed down into these areas,
    1) contact taser,
    2) projection taser.

    The contact taser is easier to defeat than the projection taser.

    F.E.I. and for real, one of the first taser type weapons used were cattle prods.
    :rockets:
     
  3. Mark Jakabcsin

    Mark Jakabcsin Green Belt

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    I just read in the news paper today that Taser International is introducing a new line of civilian tasers for 2008. It is a taser MP3 player combination. No joking. The MP3 will have 1 gig of memory and the holsters will come in an array of colors including a leopard print. Actually the MP3 Player is in the holster not the taser. Front page of the USA Today business section. Bottom of the far left column. And growing up I thought Maxwell Smart's shoe phone was cool!

    Mark J.
     
  4. CoryKS

    CoryKS Senior Master

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    ..."Ride the Lightning", "Thunderstruck"...
     
  5. FearlessFreep

    FearlessFreep Senior Master

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    "Another One Bites The Dust"
     
  6. punisher73

    punisher73 Senior Master

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    First, "stun guns" have been around for a while. You could buy them in the magazines and at gun shows, so this isn't something "brand new" that criminals are going to have access to.

    Second, What is the intent of an attacker? Is it to just mug you? If it is they are going to walk up behind you and shoot you with the TASER without you knowing what has happened and steal your wallet. Are they going to just threaten you with it to get your wallet? If so a gun is a HECK of a lot cheaper and easier to obtain illegaly. Again, I don't see this becoming some new weapon of choice for the average street criminal.

    As an LEO I know there are products out there for LE only that cancel out the TASER. I am not going to say what the product is, but the technology is actually impressive to watch on the demo. It rendered the taser completely useless when it was used. As a side note, good tactics would still prevail if the user of the TASER thinks tactically about it.

    As far as tactics to use if a bad guy has one. Your best bet is (assuming he is standing in front of you threatening you) to just start running in zig zag patterns BEFORE he pulls the trigger. Once the trigger is initiated the probes come out at too fast a speed to "deflect" also they come out in a pair and then spread to maximize contact distance between the two. So it's not a case of putting your block where the laser dot is pointed.

    If only one probe does make contact and the other doesn't it is only a pain compliance and does not cause the muscular/neurological interference that makes them so effective.

    People do respond in different ways, when I was tasered for our department it didn't put me down and we had a couple other guys that were also able to stand through it and "frankenstein shuffle" during the ride. The nice thing about the taser is you can keep pulling that trigger and resending the 5 second ride if you absolutely have to.
     
  7. kaizasosei

    kaizasosei Master Black Belt

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    i see now. actually i remember hearing something llike that. i guess would be good to know exactly what one is dishing out.

    getting me curious a little too curious about the shock. i made myself shocker s in highschool, including charging up the capacitors from throwaway camera etc to shock. ive been shocked a number of times a couple of times simple accidents with lightsockets etc. but one the greatest electrifying experience i have yet had were the electric baths of japan-denki ofuro- while in kyoto, i would seek them out. comparing the strengths of the electicity. while some baths had currents that simply tingled, other baths could imobilize your entire body. the trick is to control the hands. there are electrical contacts in the form of plastic like sheets on the side of the small basin of a tub. if your hands are together like in praying position, you're fine in even a strong electrobath-although submerging to neck can be intense.
    but when you start to spread your hands apart, towards the side, the electricity becomes unbearable about halfway three quarters. also it depends how far into the bath you go. if you submerge your neck, it also gets pretty funny with muscles contraced almost immobile.
    i'm sure that the tasers are still much more powerful than the denki ofuro.
    even the contact tasers freak me out and i sortof dread getting tased. i'd much rather a friend try it..:) however, with the denki ofuro i found it quite enjoyable because one could regulate the strength with the hands.
     
  8. tradrockrat

    tradrockrat 2nd Black Belt

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    My wife is a certified Taser instructor (yes, she was Tased - they all are).

    If you want to defend against a Taser, don't get hit by it.

    Trust me.

    But specifically - if you are hit, you are at the mercy of it until the current shuts off, so a smart bad guy is going to f#ck you up when you're down so that you CAN'T "get up swinging" as someone here said.

    Yes - I have spent some considerable time thinking about defending the Taser attack and unless you're watching a playoff game in Green Bay, you aren't wearing enough clothes to stop the barbs from getting you. You need to get something hard between you and the barbs before the trigger is pulled.

    For all practical purposes training against the Taser is like training against a firearm.
     
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  9. Zero

    Zero Master Black Belt

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    Question:
    Point taken on you're out of it as long as the current is flowing but if you can take the hit and manage to regroup yourself in between charges, can you pull those suckers out? Could you grab and tear the barbs out of you once the charge stops?

    So they can get through a thick leather jacket?
     
  10. still learning

    still learning Senior Master

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    Hello, Hawaii? ...taser are outlaw except for the Hawaii Police departments...and more officers are getting them too!

    Tasers are excellant defense weapons. Just that if the bad guys get them? ...we will be at there mercy! If one was a bad guy?...you will not wait till the person is facing you...you want to taser them before they can look at you (hard to identity when unseen?).

    When you are on the ground after being tase?...no chance of fighting back!

    There is Pros' and con's in all weapons......Why do we keep releasing the bad guys over and over and over again? ...70% of crimes comes from repeat offender...each time they get more violent too!

    The best answer is let them serve there time or end there time here on earth...Cost is rising to house one criminal $35,000 a year....to educated children is under $10,000 a year....

    Crime does pay!

    Aloha, Why? ...do the bad guys have better laws to protect them? ..than the average person? .....? .....?
     
  11. chinto

    chinto Senior Master

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    well like gun control or any weapons control out lawing tasers is stupid.. IT WILL NOT WORK.. criminals can always get a weapon .. any weapon, legal or illegal. the only person who will not get a taser in Hawaii is the honest law abiding person! so I would suggest that you tell your state government to wake up, smell the coffee and repeal that stupidity.. ohh and get a good pistol and other guns too on principle... also good kama , and staff and maybe a sword and spear! :)
     
  12. still learning

    still learning Senior Master

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    Hello, Our Hawaii government does not work real well too many people in both houses...too many compromises..you end up with a NOT complete bills...in the end....the average person...loses.

    It is NOT the taser that is the problems...our justice systems do not know how to keep all those in prison to serve a full term...NO parole boards...and stiffer punishments is NEEDED. ...and repeat offenders...should NEVER be release....

    Everyone knows child predators and rapist...ALL NEVER CURE..WITH JAIL SENTENCES....STEALING IS AN ADDICTED...and dope you need people who wants to stop....to want to be cure.

    IN the end....the average good person loses to crime.

    Our laws flavoriate the wrong people...it should be governament of laws by the people...and leave an religionous tones out! Nothing wrong with getting rid of the bad people in this world. 'Cost to us is $34,000 dollars of our TAX money to house and care for them in Jails...and the cost is rasing each year....YOUR TAX DOLLARS AT WORK....Aloha...RELIEF IS NEEDED...
     
  13. still learning

    still learning Senior Master

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    Hello, Just saw in the news...ONLY seven (7) states do not allow Tasers for it citizens. Hawaii is one of them.

    Aloha, Yep? ..Hawaii is always behind on things...
     
  14. jamz

    jamz Orange Belt

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    I wouldn't worry too much about tasers becoming mainstream badguy tools. They are too limited for an enterprise like that. They can only be used once before re-activation, they are not popular enough yet to be easily and often stolen, they are not as intimidating as a firearm, nor as robust or durable.

    Pretty good tools for self defense, but not good tools for a bad guy, fortunately.
     
  15. joeygil

    joeygil Green Belt

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    Don't know about that. They allow gay marriage (which I consider progress, but that's my politics). That's ahead of most of the other states.


    Back to the original topic.

    I assume we're talking about civilian Tasers used for nefarious purposes (my neighbor's kid was mugged for his iPod by a Taser wielding person). Civilian Tasers are limited to 15 feet range. So if you are out that far, or close to it, you could make a break for it.

    Otherwise, if you're in close - treat it like firearm defense - grab and move. Also take comfort that your life probably isn't in danger. Hopefully they won't have a follow up knife.

    As to the speed of the barbs, I read 170 feet per second (according to the interwebs). That'll cover 15 feet in maybe a 10th of a second. That's slower than a typical paint-ball, and I have a friend who would regularly dodge them, but not at 15 feet.

    Question: Do you need to shut off the Tasing before touching the target? If this is a standard mugging, and they have to shut it off, then they effectively release you before they can grab you purse/wallet. Somehow I don't think so, since the current travels electrode to electrode - not to ground.
     
  16. Brian R. VanCise

    Brian R. VanCise MT Moderator Staff Member

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  17. sgtmac_46

    sgtmac_46 Senior Master

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    Given the fact that Taser International goes to quite a bit of effort, including registering each unique cartridge and filling with confetti that gets left at the scene trackable back to the purchaser, the potential for abuse is extremely low.

    As for defense against the Taser.....consider it the same as a firearm....In otherwords, if you're counting on dodging it AFTER it's fired, you're barking up the wrong tree. Your defense strategy should be pre-emptive along the lines of gun defense, i.e. take aways.

    As Tasers have to be used within 15 feet (civilian cartridges) to 21 to 25 feet (Law Enforcement), the user does have to be close.......using some sort of shield might be effect, say a Trash can lid or your buddy. ;) Unlike bullets, Taser cartridges are unlikely to penetrate anything but soft objects.

    Again, your likelihood of being Tasered is low versus being shot or stabbed....but if confronted by some drunken female with a pink Taser, running out of range is quite effective......remember 15 feet is the maximum range for civilian cartridges.
     
  18. Hudson

    Hudson White Belt

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    I just read the same article and was wondering about taser defense myself.
    There are a few aspects which are similar to gun defense:

    If at close range, you can try to disarm the taser. A lot of 'Reality Based' MAs teach these sort of techniques (some better than others). The bottom line in all of them is get out of the line of fire first and secure the weapon. If a person is close enough to you such that you could disarm a firearm or a taser, then that person obviously doesn't realize how to properly utilise the weapon (why use a gun at close range? Intimidation. A gun is properly used a few paces away minimum). Of course, this might not be an option.

    Also, from what I remember in some gun defense seminars I took, it is exceedingly more difficult to hit a moving target than a stationary one. I think the statistic was something like 60% less likely to hit a moving target unless trained to do so. And the type of person/civilian who you might have to defend against a taser attack probably lacks sufficient training to hit a moving target (as a previous poster said, always do what a LEO says). Especially if it is someone who just picked their hot-pink C2 up at a "Taser Party" I wouldn't expect them to be Annie Oakley.

    1st defense: Movement. Be a hard target to hit. Don't try and swat the barbs grasshopper. Get out of the effective range. Those taser cables can't hit you if they aren't long enough.

    Also, I just read a news article via yahoo where a criminal could not be apprehended because his clothing prevented the taser barbs from completing the circuit necessary to provide the shock.

    2nd Defense: Thick clothes. I imagine a leather jacket is a good start since most people would probably aim for the body (man I can't imagine getting tased in the face, yikes!)

    But of course, the best defense would to not get yourself in such a position, but we all know that right?

    -Hudson
     
  19. geezer

    geezer Grandmaster

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    Man, if these things ever do get popular on the street, I'll be carrying a kevlar umbrella. Ever see "The Avengers"?
     
  20. Deaf Smith

    Deaf Smith Master of Arts

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    Read up on what the taser barbs can penitrate. You will find some cloths do stop the barbs while others insulate enough so the power cannot be transfered. Kelvar does very well and it stops bullets and in many cases knives to!

    Also Tasers have a very short range and just two shots. Stepping off the 'X' very quickly and moving away at great speed might work.

    Aside that, yes any intervening object will interfear with it (like an umbrella.) What most people don't know is tanks defeat weapons like the Dragon and TOW by moving behind trees once they see the signature of the weapon firing or pop smoke and use it to obscure.

    Bit off topic but... do note, at least in Texas here if one pulls a Taser to rob someone, the other will be considered to be in fear of their life (Tasers can kill and of course you become helpless if it's used on you) and thus if armed with a firearm, you can use it on them (our CHL numbers are getting close to 1/2 millon.. the DPS is swamped with request for licenses!) So whipping out a Taser and saying 'stick'em up' might not be such a good idea. Never bring a Taser to a gunfight.

    Deaf123
     

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