Taser Defense?

Discussion in 'General Self Defense' started by FearlessFreep, Jan 4, 2008.

  1. FearlessFreep

    FearlessFreep Senior Master

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    I was reading this article (Taser Parties) and it brought to mind something I've been thinking of for awhile...that of self-defense against a taser. I think tasers will probably become street weapons like knives and guns, but I think thy are unique enough threats to warrant a focused self-defense approach

    As anyone put thought into self-defense against tasers yet
     
  2. CoryKS

    CoryKS Senior Master

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    I wouldn't go with the "Don't tase me, bro." approach. It's amazingly ineffective. I thought this was funny:

    Pink: because 88 million jigawatts alone doesn't make a statement.
     
  3. FearlessFreep

    FearlessFreep Senior Master

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    Yeah, but being laid out by a cute pink weapon is just embarrassing
     
  4. Big Don

    Big Don Sr. Grandmaster

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    Is not provoking someone a defense? ;)
    Tasers, like firearms can function just fine at distances no martial artist is likely to be able to cover in time. The best I can think of off hand is diving or running to the left or right JUST as it is fired. Those little darts fly out fairly straight, and fast. Getting out of the way may work better against a taser than against a spray or a firearm, for the simple reason that even police tasers are single shot weapons.
     
  5. Big Don

    Big Don Sr. Grandmaster

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    As is being laid out by the 4'9 17 year old blond in my class...:vu:
     
  6. arnisador

    arnisador Sr. Grandmaster

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    I've wondered myself about defense against a Taser. How fast do the darts travel? Is it reasonable to hope to dodge them, or to swat them out of the way? I don't have any experience with them.
     
  7. MA-Caver

    MA-Caver Sr. Grandmaster

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    The electrodes that are shot out of the "gun" are small... and move very fast, I'd imagine it'd be like trying to swat a couple of speeding hornets or bees out of the way. Timing would have to be split-microsecond between when the attacker pulls the trigger and when they reach you. So unless you're Neo the chosen one...
    I'm not sure about this either but I believe the electrodes are live as soon as they leave the barrel and not upon impact. So even if you were to swat them you'd still get a jolt.

    Tasers in the hands of LEO's is fine and IMO they should be the ONLY ones allowed to carry them. Everyone else, the close quarter variety of the stun-guns. A criminal; robber or (worse) rapist can disarm someone via ambush at a distance from behind and have their victim down before they know they're in danger, small hairs on the back of the neck not-withstanding.
     
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  8. Guardian

    Guardian Black Belt

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    There are a couple of responses that come to mind.

    Some of them are:

    Clothing depending on where you live, the amount of clothing you wear, now of course if you live in Sunny Southern California or the freakin hot butt North Texas area, your just screwed on the clothing part.

    Drugs, didn't say I do them, but I have been involved with tasers and those on drugs.

    The last big one, awareness and don't put yourself in places or situations that would require you to avoid a taser.



     
  9. Brian R. VanCise

    Brian R. VanCise MT Moderator Staff Member

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    Okay a taser needs its contact points on you to affect you. As mentioned above clothes or lots of clothes, coat, etc. could inhibit a taser as it would a stun gun. (if you live in warm places as mentioned above you are SOL) I have also been witness to several incidents in person and also watched it on film where a drunk/drugged subject rolled and rendered the taser useless because the contact points got messed up. How easy is this to do when you are riding the dragon? Well probably not easy but if you are riding it and you can roll that is a good start. (good luck :rofl:) After that though you need to recover quick enough to defend yourself. (good luck with that if you got a good jolt :erg:) So not getting hit with a taser is the most important thing! Follow directions if ordered to by a LEO. If you are in a violent encounter with a criminal with a taser get off line or increase the distance dramatically. Best of all good luck! [​IMG] For myself I will use a distance tool to neutralize the opponent if necessary! [​IMG]
     
  10. FearlessFreep

    FearlessFreep Senior Master

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    Follow directions if ordered to by a LEO

    Yeah, I'm not too worried about that one but you could say the same for a gun. It's the taser/stun gun getting into someone of less than honorable intentions that concerns me. Although probably les slikely as the aim of the taser is to subdue safely (for the one using it) but not lethally (for the one receiving it) and that's a nuance I don't think too many street thugs are worried about.

    Still, your self-defense grows obsolete if you do not take time to consider and address new threats
     
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  11. Brian R. VanCise

    Brian R. VanCise MT Moderator Staff Member

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    Absolutely we all need to think out of the box! [​IMG]
     
  12. searcher

    searcher Senior Master

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    I don't want to sound to to Mr. Miyagi-ish, but "If do right, no can defense." Somethings can be almost impossible to defend against. Unless you want to line your clothes, especially the chest area, with a non-conductive material you will have no chance to defend against it. JMO.
     
  13. jks9199

    jks9199 Administrator Staff Member

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    There's not much you can do to defend against a Taser or similar weapon once it makes contact with you. The best you can do is ride it out, knowing that when it's over, you'll be ready to fight again almost immediately.

    The catch is that while the police version is a 5 second ride... the civilian version is a 30 second ride, to give you time to escape. (There are some other differences, but, in my opinion, they amount to the difference between taking a front snap kick and a front thrust kick to the solar plexus... Not really enough to matter!)

    Taser International has been responsible; you have to pass the criminal check and complete training to activate the product. There's not much more we can ask for.
     
  14. kaizasosei

    kaizasosei Master Black Belt

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    i don't have enough information on or experience with the tazers nor have i put too much thought into this until now. i always assumed i would be able to swat them away somehow, but realistically, that doesn't seem to be such a reliable solution. i would think that the best chance would be to take up a nonconductive sheild of some sort. like a book or a newspaper something plastic and preferable with some surface area. if i have a satisfactory sheild like that, i would think it would be really hard to get me by a single tazer. - if you start rolling the second you see the tazer, i bet it would also be really hard to hit reliably, gaining distance. the tazers are limited with range. just like getting shot by a gun, if you cannot close and disarm then try to get away. in the case of the tazer, one probably has greater chances than with a gun. if there is anything in the surroundings, it could be used as cover. tazing someone is usually easy because they stand still. but if someone is running around very eratically. one would need to immobilze them or hit them with a lucky shot.
    so one would need to make sure not to let the tazing procedure be done correctly. mess it up for the one about to do the tazing. im sure there are countless ways to escape take cover or to render it ineffective





    also, i would try to even use clothing like an entire jacket tossed or held up at the right time. even if one get tased through the clothing which might still be able to release, i think it would be better than having the contacts hit you at heart or neck level.
    a friend of mine took at about 6 seconds of zapping by two different sized stunguns. this was to the shoulder.
    obviously the tazers are much stronger tho.

    best bet would be to not get shot at in the first place.

    or carry a bigger tazer or a gun and when someone threatens you tell them to put down their weapon or face their doom.

    j
     
  15. Spinback

    Spinback Yellow Belt

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    I'd say, if you can, put something between yourself and the taser. Could be a car, or just holding a piece of wood/cardboard like a shield. As long as at least one of the darts doesn't get you, the charge won't either. And keep moving. Although they shoot fast, tasers aren't nearly as accurate as handguns, so at least make the person hesitate with a little shake'n'bake ;)

    edit- haha, looks like the guy above me had most of this covered. Well said my friend.
     
  16. MA-Caver

    MA-Caver Sr. Grandmaster

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    I have to disagree with that. I've friends in LE who have been hit with Tasers (required training) and they said they were far from "immediately" ready to fight again once the Taser (effects) was "shut-off." Also as this video shows, the correctional officer wasn't ready to jump up and kick butt either.
    [yt]ACUjnJBHIZc&feature=related[/yt]

    Ever get shocked by a regular household current? That's just up your arm (or wherever) and maybe for just a second because of knee-jerk reaction of withdrawing from the source or dropping the wire. From my understanding the Taser when striking the torso affects the entire nervous system and the effect lasts long enough for LEO's to converge upon you, take you to the ground, roll you over (if you're not already) and get the cuffs on.
    A few seconds or 30 is more than enough time to close the distance and further incapacitate whomever it is you want to attack. The Taser doesn't have to be the only weapon in an attacker's arsenal at the moment. Slaps, clubs and knives make very nice secondary weapons.
    Also your comparison of the police and civvy versions 5 and 30 seconds? Might not that be in reverse? One would think that the police version is a longer "ride" than the civilian.
    How many guns are in the hands who would not otherwise not be able to pass a criminal background check? Guns are still being sold illegally out of the back of vans/cars/trucks so Tasers would definitely on on the bill of fare. Not to mention there are those who are of unscrupulous nature who would pass the background check and buy one for a friend who wouldn't.
    There's a LOT more I could ask for in this regard.
    :asian:
     
  17. jks9199

    jks9199 Administrator Staff Member

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    I've taken that ride... I was a little wobbly for a minute or two, but not even as bad as being rocked by a good, stiff right that hits close to the button. Others in the class were quicker to recover; one guy came up swinging. I'm confident that had it been a real fight situation, I could have bounced up swinging.

    The experience of the Taser, specifically, is unique. There is a little similarity to the sensation of getting bit by household current... kind of like being bearhugged is a little like being tackled. The Neuromuscular Incapacitation that the unique Taser pulse delivers really does lock you up; there's no resisting or yanking away from a good, two probe hit. It's a little like a massage by fire ants on steroids... though I know one person who actually has come to enjoy it... It takes all kinds. I admit; I'd take a Taser hit over OC, just because it's over quicker with less aftereffects.

    The civilian version has a longer ride because it's purpose is different. For a cop, we want the guy to drop, and we'll move in and cuff him, ideally during the Taser cycle, when he can't resist. For a civilian, the idea is to hit 'em, and run away while they can't chase you because you're locked up. (And the Taser charge will penetrate up to 2 inches of clothing.)

    I never said that a Taser won't fall into the hands of someone who shouldn't have it, only that the company has been responsible about it. They take what steps they can to control who can purchase and activate a Taser. There's no way that they can control what happens after a certain point in the process, anymore than Glock or S&W can control what someone does with a pistol.
     
  18. kaizasosei

    kaizasosei Master Black Belt

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    wow! hats off to the guy who let himself get tazered like that. what a badass!

    as i see, the tazer is too fast to swat away safely. maybe some more modern version of what i remembered. still, one could evade if quick enough i think. i wonder how wide the exact span of the leads is and in what formation they typicaly fly out at their target.



    j
     
  19. zDom

    zDom Senior Master

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    Not sure about other states, but in order to be certified to use them here in Missouri, you must go through a course that includes...

    being tased :)

    So ALL LE officers around here who carry them have experienced it themselves.
     
  20. MJS

    MJS Administrator Staff Member

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    I have no issue with anyone that wants to carry a weapon. I'm not anti gun or knife, but I do feel that people should have a) the proper training, b) keep up with that training, c) know the use of force laws, d) train with the weapon as far as being able to deploy it. Seems like every time a LEO uses one, there is always a big mess that follows, so it'll be interesting to see what would happen if a civilian uses one.

    On the other hand, this could be one more tool that the bad guys could use to commit a crime.

    As far as defending against one...its hard because this is a long and short range weapon. If they're like the ones the LEOs use, where prongs come out, it can obviously be used at a distance, as well as direct contact. I would say move your body off line, while redirecting, control, and counter strike.123
     

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