Tai Chi Combat Self Defense

Discussion in 'Chinese Internal Arts : Taijiquan (Tai Chi) and Qi' started by macher, May 25, 2018.

  1. macher

    macher Green Belt

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    I bully him. Apologized after he was scared sh*tless.
     
  2. ChenAn

    ChenAn Green Belt

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    Next time try it Texas :)


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  3. Buka

    Buka Grandmaster

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    My old sparring partner, Billy Blanks, is a beast of man. And Billy has trained with, or fought, just about everyone all over the world at one time or another. I asked him once, who the baddest man he ever met in the Martial world was.

    He didn't even hesitate. He said his Tai Chi instructor from Pennsylvania, a Master Chan. Told me some great stories. He also said Master Chan's mom, also a life long Tai Chi practitioner, a little bitty woman, was pretty scary. In a nice way.

    I never forgot that.
     
  4. macher

    macher Green Belt

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    Obviously he had faulce
    When I practiced Bagua years ago we went to this school in PA. She was a small Chinese woman and we were there to spar with her students. I would say she was in her mid to upper 70’s. Didn’t know we could spar with her. Being young I decided I wanted to spar with her. She kicked my *** and my pride. I’ll never forget she used her whole body without any space and I went hard into the wall. Like a shoulder bump. Damn I forget the name.
     
  5. JowGaWolf

    JowGaWolf Grandmaster

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    For me it's not this way. For me it's still the same. Applicable skill sets develops courage. Many in my generation used to speak that courage stuff, and some of those same people are dead because they felt they had to prove their courage.

    Biggie Smalls and Tupac are like the poster kids for this type of behavior.

    If they are freezing then it's most likely they don't have the applicable skill sets to deal with the situation that they are in.
     
  6. JowGaWolf

    JowGaWolf Grandmaster

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    lol.. well can't fault you for being honest
     
  7. kempodisciple

    kempodisciple MT Moderator Staff Member

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    From what you're saying here I don't get why you would want to train tai chi. All you want is something to teach you the quick ways to deal with an untrained fighter? Learn krav maga or an RBSD, that's what their focus is.
     
  8. kempodisciple

    kempodisciple MT Moderator Staff Member

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    I'm assuming that you're friends with the guy, otherwise you wouldn't have done this? I'm also assuming you're at work since you specified coworker? Correct me if either of those are wrong.

    If not...are you certain that if a friend came up to you at work and started pushing and yelling at you, that you wouldn't freeze? That's a very specific scenario and different than a fight. If someone does that at a bar, I'm pretty sure I know how I'll respond because I've been in fights before. If someone I know and don't expect violence from were to all of a sudden assault me (not using the legal sense, but overwhelm me from the physical/verbal aspect), that's a lot tougher to call. I may do the same thing in the bar...or my brain may try to process what is going on (different than lack of courage, as again, I've been in enough fights to know I have that), and 'short circuit' in a sense.

    What my brain may go through:

    "Am I being attacked? Should I fight back? Wait that's Steve...do I attack him and hurt him, or refrain him. Wait...I'm at work. Is it a good idea for me to fight at all here? Can I just run away, or would that cause issues? Hang on a second, why is Steve attacking me? And why would he do that at work? He's yelling...is he actually attacking me or pushing me out of the way of something? Should I go back farther? Should I just stay still where he pushed me? Did I do something to him...do we need to talk this out before it gets really violent? Wait a second...is it worth that risk...should I just attack him now? But it's Steve. I like Steve. I don't want to hurt Steve. But I don't want Steve to hurt me. Well he only pushed me once...and he's not yelling anymore. I think I'm good, let's just ask him what happened."

    And if there's a weapon involved, add: "Do I take out my weapon? If I do will I/will I have to use it? I'm at work, am I even allowed to have a weapon? What if my supervisor sees it? What if he does the same, and now it's a knife fight in the office?"

    That entire thought process could happen from someone trained fight, with every confidence in the world that he could beat Steve. Personally, that thought process would be very different from, at a bar. "That guy just swung at me!" Followed by either "I'm going to protect myself.", "Is X okay?" or "Let me back up and see what's going on.". That's a split second process, that's decided by the other circumstances involved.
     
  9. kempodisciple

    kempodisciple MT Moderator Staff Member

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    As a side note, it was a lot of fun imagining what I might think in that situation. I just let my mind ramble, and out it came :D
     
  10. zzj

    zzj Blue Belt

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    I have more than 4 years of tai chi training, but the only person I can confidently win is my six yr old son :(
     
  11. Zeny

    Zeny Blue Belt

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    Taiji is obviously a martial art, is there ever any doubt about that? ;)
     
  12. ChenAn

    ChenAn Green Belt

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    The bottom line is: taiji comes in package of two wellness/longevity/health and martial arts.
    Taiji is not for everyone.
    Taiji is not efficient way to learn combative usage quickly and requires time
    Spending years practicing taiji doesn’t guarantee success.
    A good qualified teacher is a key.
    Until body method is learnt and understand applications/usage will only work with brute physical strength.
    Compensating for lack of skills by vigorous none taiji related conditioning defeating the purpose of practicing taiji on the first place.

    Do we agree ?


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  13. Xue Sheng

    Xue Sheng All weight is underside

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    Speaking as a Yang Style guy who has been at it for over 25 years...yes...we agree
     
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  14. Zeny

    Zeny Blue Belt

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    The infamous limp noodle arms say:

    Taiji is a martial art which follows ying and yang. Out of this, there are a thousand different forms, which are in turn practised by a million people, of different backgrounds, age, race, and build. Everyone has their own understanding of taiji. But as long as we follow the concept of ying and yang, of softness to defeat hardness, of change to defeat stagnancy, we are practising taiji.

    Taiji comes in only one package, which is ying and yang. If we only practise ten minutes a day, we will gain wellness and health, but will only scratch the surface of taiji.

    Taiji is obviously not for everyone. One man’s honey is another man’s poison.

    Taiji, if practised correctly under 24/7 guidance of a grandmaster, is the most efficient way to learn fighting, as in one year spent practising taiji is better than a year spent in any other art. But not everyone has 24/7 access to a grandmaster.

    Hard work doesn’t guarantee success in anything.

    A good qualified teacher is the key to learning anything.

    Brute physical strength is the baseline for all healthy adults. From there, taiji and the different arts improve this baseline. Taiji especially, molds the body into steel wrapped in cotton able to express true internal strength, conveniently named as ‘jin’.

    To condition a taiji body, the form is the best method. All other methods, vigorous or not, may or may not help to a lesser or greater extent. So don’t waste time, just practise the form.

    Thus the limp noodle arms hath spoketh.
     
  15. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

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    I don't agree that Taiji is even good for longevity/health. The reason are:

    1. No weight training - You may lose bone density in old age.
    2. No heart stress test - The slow Taiji movement does not make your heart to work enough.
    3. Not enough single leg balance training - You may lose balance and fall in old age.
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2018
  16. ChenAn

    ChenAn Green Belt

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    It doesn’t seem like you know much about traditional taiji


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  17. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

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    If you don't agree with my opinion just give your reason. There is no need for personal attack.

    Here is my teacher's Taiji.

     
    Last edited: May 30, 2018
  18. Xue Sheng

    Xue Sheng All weight is underside

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    OK, this will likely not end well.

    But based on this

    I can see why you say this

    And I agree with ChenAn post...and I will critique the video no further

    I leg postures in traditiaonal Yang
    右蹬脚 Right Heel Kick
    左蹬脚 Left Heel Kick
    转身右蹬脚 Turn Body and Right Heel Kick
    左金鸡独立 Golden Rooster Stands on One Leg, Left
    右金鸡独立 Golden Rooster Stands on One Leg, Right
    十字腿 Cross Kick

    My flavor of Yang






    The Chen I use to do





    And to clarify, none of these people are me.

    The side by side Yang is Tung Ying Chieh and his Son Tung Hu Ling
    Tung Ying Chieh is my Shigong and was my teacher's teacher

    The Chen is Chen Zhenglei
    I learned Laojia Yilu from Chen Zhenglei and some of his students
    I learned the 18 form from one of hie students

    I also have done a Wu style competition form and of course like many taiji folks the Beijing 24 form. but these I do not consider traditional and I no longer do the Wu form

    Going back to the Yang that I do from Tung Ying Chieh
    The style also includes
    2 Fast forms
    1 Jian Form
    2 Dao forms
    1 staff form
    and various types of push hands training including stick and sticky
    As well as various qigong forms
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2018
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  19. ChenAn

    ChenAn Green Belt

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    Sorry for my ignorance but I don’t know much about person on this video. I’m practicing Chenshi Dajja taiji and not familiar with other branches, but for what it worth here is bid of 92 years old practitioner practicing my frame


    Here is article about him (he is around 100 now)
    http://kuaibao.qq.com/s/20180318G0URDJ00?refer=spider


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  20. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

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    We may have some generation gap here. :)

    Here is my student's Taiji. This video was filmed 35 years ago.

    123
     

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