Tai Chi Combat Self Defense

Discussion in 'Chinese Internal Arts : Taijiquan (Tai Chi) and Qi' started by macher, May 25, 2018.

  1. mograph

    mograph Master Black Belt

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    No, it is just misunderstood. It is just a means of learning how to distribute physical force through the entire body in order to better coordinate movements and structure for greater effect from less effort per-muscle. Many fighters know that the distribution is a good thing ("turn your waist, use your legs"): they just don't call it "internal style," or they just haven't refined it to the level that some internal types have. Or maybe they have.

    The internal types just refer to it as "chi" power because it is undifferentiated (e.g. not using only your triceps) and distributed through a greater volume of the body, so you can't point to specific muscles.

    We shouldn't try to imagine, or think that good internal artists are trying to imagine some special, real, magical radiation-energy substance as the basis of their skills. Chi (qi) is more a model, construct, metaphor than many westerners think, and good internal stylists and TCM folk know it's a metaphor or model.

    But yes, there's no Jedi-like radiation, electricity sent through your opponent, chi-ball zapping and so on. That's nonsense.
     
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  2. JowGaWolf

    JowGaWolf Grandmaster

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    Yep. as a Good Teacher. I can say that you are correct. lol. But seriously the part about fighting without too much thinking is not easy to come by when trying to apply a technique. It takes time and the stuff that takes the most time to master isn't the fighting components. Just understanding the principles and concepts can take a long time to truly understand vs just knowing the answer of what techniques do.

    As skilled as MMA fighters are, you'll still see some that can't do the "oblique kick" properly and even fewer actually try to do it at all. Some things just takes a lot of time and patience in order to learn.
     
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  3. mograph

    mograph Master Black Belt

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    Exactly, Good Teacher! :D This is why we shouldn't assume that a good teacher will give us something to defend ourselves with against a good opponent right away.
     
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  4. macher

    macher Green Belt

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    Why not? I would expect a good teacher to show me the principles not just the form.
     
  5. JowGaWolf

    JowGaWolf Grandmaster

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    The risk with this is that you are shown something that you assume you are ready and able to use. It breeds false confidence. It's o.k. to show principles but you have to be careful of how much you show and monitor the students assumptions about what they are doing. When they get too far beyond what they can actually do, then you'll need to bring them back to reality and simply tell them that they aren't ready to apply the technique.

    I've done this on multiple occasions with students. I do it to myself, and sometimes my sparring partner will hit me in a way to remind me that I still have things to learn. A perfect example, I was sparring with a student from another school. He was able to land light "stomp kicks" on my knee. I couldn't see them coming and he asked me, "You know that I'm thinking of breaking your knee when I kick you there." I replied yes, and I'll get my act together soon.

    Had it been a real fight, I would have been in grave danger with those kicks that I couldn't read.

    We always want to make sure that how we see ourselves matches our actual ability to perform the principles of martial arts. As the Tai Chi vs MMA guy. I'm pretty sure he felt good about it going into the match and all that changed when he ate some punches.
     
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  6. macher

    macher Green Belt

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    Most altercations in real like you won’t be subject to those kicks. Yes you can’t assume that but most of the time it’s not against a skilled fighter.

    Against an average Joe all you need is a little more skill. But skill isn’t the key. The key is mentality. For instance a couple of months ago I tested a co worker of mine. I started pushing him and yelling at him. What did he do? He froze. I know for a fact I wouldn’t have froze and wouldn’t let anyone push me. After the first push I would have done something I wouldn’t have froze.
     
  7. JowGaWolf

    JowGaWolf Grandmaster

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    Not a risk I'm willing to take because if I'm wrong then I'll get a busted knee for being wrong and thinking that someone was an average Joe and wouldn't do it. The fix for the problem is to adjust my stance. I rather just do that be safe and come out with my knees intact.

    I'm pretty sure skill is the key. More specific. I'm sure it's applicable skill that is the key. Mentality will only get you so far case in point. One person's mentality about his fighting ability exceeds his skill set.
     
  8. ChenAn

    ChenAn Green Belt

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    Oh this kiai master is just delusional dude who lives in his imaginary word. His skills only work within close circle of his followers, who in turn brainwashed themselves to believe in his crap.

    I don’t think it would be good example of “underestimated” opponent. The guy is just a joke


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  9. macher

    macher Green Belt

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    Right but all the skill doesn’t mean anything unless you’re not afraid to defend yourself. I know MA practitioner’s who have the skill but will freeze. I might not be a skilled fighter but I’m certainly not afraid to defend myself. I’m not afraid to fight. The skill such as MA training gives you the edge in the real world.
     
  10. JowGaWolf

    JowGaWolf Grandmaster

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    It's meant to be an example, of how someone who thinks they have the skills and principles to fight when in reality they are missing key components. The same thing happens when someone tries to teach fighting principals right away. Students walk away without the necessary foundation to use the techniques. They also walk away with the assumption that they can use those techniques and principles to fight.
     
  11. macher

    macher Green Belt

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    Bad example and proves my point. After the first hit he was done he was scared. His skill is BS anyway look at the beginning of the video.
     
  12. JowGaWolf

    JowGaWolf Grandmaster

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    When you have the skill set and know without a doubt that you can apply it, then that helps to build the courage to stand up. It's not based on confidence. It's based on ability and that ability creates confidence. Many martial arts schools will build confidence without ability and when this happens, the people aren't able to actually use the techniques that they have been training.

    If those MA practitioners skill was based on their ability to apply the techniques then they wouldn't freeze. They wouldn't freeze because of the type of training that's required to get to the point where you can use against different fighting styles, won't produce a "freeze response."
     
  13. JowGaWolf

    JowGaWolf Grandmaster

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    His skills are irrelevant because he had the mentally that he could fight. Having the mentality is all that is needed to defend one's self right?

    Just because someone is afraid doesn't mean they can't stomp the mess out of you.

    This is why cornered animals and people are so dangerous.
     
  14. JowGaWolf

    JowGaWolf Grandmaster

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    This is the statement I'm addressing with the Kai video. Skill is the key. More specifically applicable skills. They guy had the mentality that he could fight and no skills, If the mentality was the key then he would have done well.

    It's just like singing. There are people who know they can sing because they trained their ability to do so, and as a result have the ability and confidence to sing. Then there's people who think they can sing, but don't train their ability to sing. The result is that they don't develop the skill to sing so they go on the mental belief that they can sing

    There is mentality and there is applicable skill, and applicable skill is the key.
     
  15. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

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    The important of the following elements in fighting.

    1. Courage,
    2. Force,
    3. MA skill.

    1 > 2 > 3.
     
  16. macher

    macher Green Belt

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    I’m not referring to fighting someone in the ring as a sport. But self defense in the real world. Honestly that guy I could tell right away he was scared.
    Yep I agree. You first need courage. If you ha e courage you can handle yourself somewhat in most situations. Where I grew up there were people yes even girls/women that had courage and force and nobody messed with them even though they didn’t have trained skill.

    Are you goIng to freeze when a situation arises whether you have skill or not.
     
  17. ChenAn

    ChenAn Green Belt

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    1. Intelligence ;)


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  18. macher

    macher Green Belt

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    All the intelligence in the world means nothing if you don’t have the courage. Many many people who MA intelligence will freeze when the situation arises.
     
  19. Buka

    Buka Grandmaster

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    What do you mean by "tested"? Was he in on it, or did you just decide to bully him?
     
  20. ChenAn

    ChenAn Green Belt

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    If one is not aware that he freezes under pressure than one had lack of intelligence :) Didn’t we just saw a kiai master who had courage to challenge outside fighter and skills to brainwash his students, but unfortunately lacked intelligence to avoid place in himself in such ridiculous situation?

    Courage alone won’t fix stupid


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