Systema a discussion

[Gweilo]

Sports Psychology – Relaxation in Sports

 

[Gweilo]

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/10615809808248313

 

[Gweilo]

One more for you to read

US7117032B2 - Systems and methods for facilitating physiological coherence using respiration training - Google Patents

 

[jobo]

I said I currently can do 24 steps comfortably, this is a personal goal of mine.

well yes and you told me I should do it, with no particular reason on why it may be beneficial

 

[jobo]

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/10615809808248313

these are phycological papers telling you how to deal with anxiety , this appears to be no use at all the physical performance , if you've trained yourselves not to be anxious ?

as I outlined above, deep breathing for anxiety, is ok, if you got a reasonable amount of time to stand there and breathe deeply and not at all in a emergency situation, that required instant action , that why people commonly freeze,, give them 30 seconds to breath and there fine, but their kids been run over by then

 

[Gerry Seymour]

well no, not by definition, if your over ridding the emotional centre, then your controlling your nervous system, which in turn moderates your breathing,, its aways the effect of n/ s control and not the cause, which is why breathing control is a sticking plaster and you should have work on control of your n/ s and then you wouldn't have elevated breathing/ racing heartbeat or any other of the stress reactions in the first place, unless you decided you need them and then you can release adrenaline as you need it,,
you really don't have time in an emergency situation to stand there doing breathing exercisess to control you fear responce by the time you've gained control you or someone is serious injuried

That you don’t like the explanation (or want to argue semantics) doesn’t alter that the techniques have some evidence of efficacy.

 

[jobo]

That you don’t like the explanation (or want to argue semantics) doesn’t alter that the techniques have some evidence of efficacy.

yes, because you learning to control your NS to control your breathing, or if you would like to put forward a different method for controlling your breathing , that DOESNT require you to first use your NS , I'd be fascinated, as I suspect would most of medical science

 

[Gweilo]

yes, because you learning to control your NS to control your breathing, or if you would like to put forward a different method for controlling your breathing , that DOESNT require you to first use your NS , I'd be fascinated, as I suspect would most of medical science

In this and other posts you claim, you control the nervous system thus controlling your breath, and that breathing itself does not control the nervous system. So if I hold my breath what happens?
My blood pressure starts to raise, my heart rate quickens, to the point, where my body starts to feel uncomfortable, then there is gag reflex, then there is pain, and if I where stupid enough, to keep holding, there would be damage to my brain, and eventually death, so the fact that by controlling my breath, can control my endocrine system, can cause gag reflexes controls my muscular system, then pain which is contolled by the nervous system, I would say, the Breath can control the nervous system.

 

[Gweilo]

well yes and you told me I should do it, with no particular reason on why it may be beneficial

The thread is titled Systema a discussion, so I told anybody who read the post about breath techniques, could try them. The reason they are beneficial has been mentioned in earlier posts.

 

[jobo]

In this and other posts you claim, you control the nervous system thus controlling your breath, and that breathing itself does not control the nervous system. So if I hold my breath what happens?
My blood pressure starts to raise, my heart rate quickens, to the point, where my body starts to feel uncomfortable, then there is gag reflex, then there is pain, and if I where stupid enough, to keep holding, there would be damage to my brain, and eventually death, so the fact that by controlling my breath, can control my endocrine system, can cause gag reflexes controls my muscular system, then pain which is contolled by the nervous system, I would say, the Breath can control the nervous system.

none of those happen if I hold my breath, eventually I pass out through lack of oxygen to the brain and then start breathing again, in fact, if I've I stoped my breathing my heart rate slows considerably,, but then I'm also purposely slowing my heart, the ability to do it to blacking out is its self an excessive in controlling your nervous sytem
you can't hold your breath beyond passing out, so there's is absolutely no danger of either brain damage of death, unless your under water of course, or to out out another way its aabsolutely impossible to commit suicide by stopping your own breathing

so your using conscious control of your ns to restrict your breathing, till the point that your ns senses impending doom and takes back contro, the systems you are experiencing are the ns way of telling you its not a good idea, until eventually out over rides your control

 

[jobo]

The thread is titled Systema a discussion, so I told anybody who read the post about breath techniques, could try them. The reason they are beneficial has been mentioned in earlier posts.

no you expressly told me to d it, during dog walking, so the logical question is why what benefit would it do me ?

 

[Gweilo]

Sometimes I wonder, if you just like to argue, go back to the beginning of the thread and read it again, you will have your answer, I'm going to watch the news.

 

[Headhunter]

Imo from what I've seen of systema I've seen a lot of breathing stuff and a lot of meditation and crawling on the floor but I've never actually seen any combat application. The few bits I have seen is aikido like stuff with compliant person summersaulting onto the floor after doing the slowest attack they can. That's just my opinion from what I've seen and that includes a class I watched. But hey I'm sure it's great for self help and relaxation and co-ordination but again I've yet to see any of the actual practical combat side of it

 

[Gweilo]

Imo from what I've seen of systema I've seen a lot of breathing stuff and a lot of meditation and crawling on the floor but I've never actually seen any combat application. The few bits I have seen is aikido like stuff with compliant person summersaulting onto the floor after doing the slowest attack they can. That's just my opinion from what I've seen and that includes a class I watched. But hey I'm sure it's great for self help and relaxation and co-ordination but again I've yet to see any of the actual practical combat side of it

But at least you tried it, what some people do not understand is the principles of systema, are a process in order to get ourself to move and respond and breath in an efficient way, apart from the techniques to achieve this, there are no book of set techniques, like you will find in other arts. After mastering the basics, and the student is moving freely etc, it is down to them to use whatever techniques suit them, Systema does lend itself to Aikido very well, and there are a few teachers that come from an Aikido back ground, so when teaching newbies a teacher will use an Aikido approach to implement locks, knife strips etc, there are a couple of teachers from a FMA background, and you see evidence of this in their students. Systema is a training process, not a style, it teaches efficiency in natural movement, breath work, control of our emotions, situational awareness, distance and timing, keep moving and survival, the rest is down to the student once they fully understand and have mastered this concept.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

yes, because you learning to control your NS to control your breathing, or if you would like to put forward a different method for controlling your breathing , that DOESNT require you to first use your NS , I'd be fascinated, as I suspect would most of medical science

Basically, you're arguing that controlling your breathing isn't controlling your breathing, but using your NS to control your breathing. Semantics, at best. At best.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Sometimes I wonder, if you just like to argue, go back to the beginning of the thread and read it again, you will have your answer, I'm going to watch the news.

Oh, he definitely just likes to argue. I've seen him argue entirely opposite positions in different threads. It's quite amusing.

 

[jobo]

Basically, you're arguing that controlling your breathing isn't controlling your breathing, but using your NS to control your breathing. Semantics, at best. At best.

no not at all, a fundamental point that is in direct contradiction to what you said above, which was, your breathing controls you ns. this takes us down the line of magical thinking and takes us significantly away from the root of developing athletic performance, which is to focus on control of your ns

 

[jobo]

Oh, he definitely just likes to argue. I've seen him argue entirely opposite positions in different threads. It's quite amusing.

I have a different opinion on different days, some times the weight of the argument that's been given against my views sways me, some times I've done addition research and modified my view, some times I consider more deeply and switch it back again, having a fixed opinion is indicative of having a closed mind but facts are always facts, till there not, and that's science

 

[Gweilo]

I have a different opinion on different days, some times the weight of the argument that's been given against my views sways me, some times I've done addition research and modified my view, some times I consider more deeply and switch it back again, having a fixed opinion is indicative of having a closed mind

I have taken a screen shot of that post, be prepared to see it in future posts.

 

[jobo]

I have taken a screen shot of that post, be prepared to see it in future posts.

err I'm happily type it in the future, the humans race has made significant progress by changing the accepted opinion, as part of my personal development I'm happy to change mine, if additional evidence come to light, it the refusal to consider you may be wrong that leads to entrenched illogic statement like many you have made above