Systema a discussion

Discussion in 'Russian Martial Arts' started by Gweilo, Jan 17, 2019.

  1. Gweilo

    Gweilo Black Belt

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  2. Gweilo

    Gweilo Black Belt

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  3. Gweilo

    Gweilo Black Belt

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  4. jobo

    jobo Grandmaster

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    well yes and you told me I should do it, with no particular reason on why it may be beneficial
     
  5. jobo

    jobo Grandmaster

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    these are phycological papers telling you how to deal with anxiety , this appears to be no use at all the physical performance , if you've trained yourselves not to be anxious ?

    as I outlined above, deep breathing for anxiety, is ok, if you got a reasonable amount of time to stand there and breathe deeply and not at all in a emergency situation, that required instant action , that why people commonly freeze,, give them 30 seconds to breath and there fine, but their kids been run over by then
     
  6. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    That you don’t like the explanation (or want to argue semantics) doesn’t alter that the techniques have some evidence of efficacy.
     
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  7. jobo

    jobo Grandmaster

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    yes, because you learning to control your NS to control your breathing, or if you would like to put forward a different method for controlling your breathing , that DOESNT require you to first use your NS , I'd be fascinated, as I suspect would most of medical science
     
  8. Gweilo

    Gweilo Black Belt

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    In this and other posts you claim, you control the nervous system thus controlling your breath, and that breathing itself does not control the nervous system. So if I hold my breath what happens?
    My blood pressure starts to raise, my heart rate quickens, to the point, where my body starts to feel uncomfortable, then there is gag reflex, then there is pain, and if I where stupid enough, to keep holding, there would be damage to my brain, and eventually death, so the fact that by controlling my breath, can control my endocrine system, can cause gag reflexes controls my muscular system, then pain which is contolled by the nervous system, I would say, the Breath can control the nervous system.
     
  9. Gweilo

    Gweilo Black Belt

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    The thread is titled Systema a discussion, so I told anybody who read the post about breath techniques, could try them. The reason they are beneficial has been mentioned in earlier posts.
     
  10. jobo

    jobo Grandmaster

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    none of those happen if I hold my breath, eventually I pass out through lack of oxygen to the brain and then start breathing again, in fact, if I've I stoped my breathing my heart rate slows considerably,, but then I'm also purposely slowing my heart, the ability to do it to blacking out is its self an excessive in controlling your nervous sytem
    you can't hold your breath beyond passing out, so there's is absolutely no danger of either brain damage of death, unless your under water of course, or to out out another way its aabsolutely impossible to commit suicide by stopping your own breathing

    so your using conscious control of your ns to restrict your breathing, till the point that your ns senses impending doom and takes back contro, the systems you are experiencing are the ns way of telling you its not a good idea, until eventually out over rides your control
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2019
  11. jobo

    jobo Grandmaster

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    no you expressly told me to d it, during dog walking, so the logical question is why what benefit would it do me ?
     
  12. Gweilo

    Gweilo Black Belt

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    Sometimes I wonder, if you just like to argue, go back to the beginning of the thread and read it again, you will have your answer, I'm going to watch the news.
     
  13. Headhunter

    Headhunter Senior Master

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    Imo from what I've seen of systema I've seen a lot of breathing stuff and a lot of meditation and crawling on the floor but I've never actually seen any combat application. The few bits I have seen is aikido like stuff with compliant person summersaulting onto the floor after doing the slowest attack they can. That's just my opinion from what I've seen and that includes a class I watched. But hey I'm sure it's great for self help and relaxation and co-ordination but again I've yet to see any of the actual practical combat side of it
     
  14. Gweilo

    Gweilo Black Belt

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    But at least you tried it, what some people do not understand is the principles of systema, are a process in order to get ourself to move and respond and breath in an efficient way, apart from the techniques to achieve this, there are no book of set techniques, like you will find in other arts. After mastering the basics, and the student is moving freely etc, it is down to them to use whatever techniques suit them, Systema does lend itself to Aikido very well, and there are a few teachers that come from an Aikido back ground, so when teaching newbies a teacher will use an Aikido approach to implement locks, knife strips etc, there are a couple of teachers from a FMA background, and you see evidence of this in their students. Systema is a training process, not a style, it teaches efficiency in natural movement, breath work, control of our emotions, situational awareness, distance and timing, keep moving and survival, the rest is down to the student once they fully understand and have mastered this concept.
     
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  15. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    Basically, you're arguing that controlling your breathing isn't controlling your breathing, but using your NS to control your breathing. Semantics, at best. At best.
     
  16. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    Oh, he definitely just likes to argue. I've seen him argue entirely opposite positions in different threads. It's quite amusing.
     
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  17. jobo

    jobo Grandmaster

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    no not at all, a fundamental point that is in direct contradiction to what you said above, which was, your breathing controls you ns. this takes us down the line of magical thinking and takes us significantly away from the root of developing athletic performance, which is to focus on control of your ns
     
  18. jobo

    jobo Grandmaster

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    I have a different opinion on different days, some times the weight of the argument that's been given against my views sways me, some times I've done addition research and modified my view, some times I consider more deeply and switch it back again, having a fixed opinion is indicative of having a closed mind but facts are always facts, till there not, and that's science
     
  19. Gweilo

    Gweilo Black Belt

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    I have taken a screen shot of that post, be prepared to see it in future posts.
     
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  20. jobo

    jobo Grandmaster

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    err I'm happily type it in the future, the humans race has made significant progress by changing the accepted opinion, as part of my personal development I'm happy to change mine, if additional evidence come to light, it the refusal to consider you may be wrong that leads to entrenched illogic statement like many you have made above
     

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