Systema a discussion

Discussion in 'Russian Martial Arts' started by Gweilo, Jan 17, 2019.

  1. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    Some other pensioner giving his first fight a go.

    We get 50year olds fight all the time. There was a master's k1 title fight being thrown around recently.

    Guy has had 5 fights or something.
     
  2. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    How old was Idris Elba when he did his first fight?
     
  3. Gweilo

    Gweilo Blue Belt

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    Yeah thanks for the pensioner quote
     
  4. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    No dramas.

    Pretty sure you can't fight with Zimmer frames. But I am sure you will make do.
     
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  5. Gweilo

    Gweilo Blue Belt

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    Yeah here's a piccy of my new improved side kick.
    FB_IMG_1562450438516.jpg
     
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  6. Gweilo

    Gweilo Blue Belt

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  7. _Simon_

    _Simon_ Master of Arts

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    Ah thanks for posting this, that's really bizarre timing, just had a kinesiology session today and deep breathing was brought up as a really helpful tool for me at this time. Perfect timing :)
     
  8. Gweilo

    Gweilo Blue Belt

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    It is so important, when we start on a journey to improve ourself, nutrition, exercise, hydration, rest days, are all given priority over the most important thing we do, and the thing we die quickest from if we are starved of.
    A lot of arts encourage breath out on a strike etc, but very few look at the benefits of breath work as a whole. Most take for granted the process of breathing, and how we can pace, restore, cool ourself, let alone the phycological benefits. I would encourage any body that has an interest in this subject to study the work of Konstantin Butyeko. I am not saying he was the founder of breath techniques, but studying his own medical condition, and detecting and predicting the death of people to within minutes by their breath patterns was awesome. Writting a report that was rejected by the Soviet government, then being seconded into the military, to develop breathing techniques to improve military perfomance, then being dismissed, and only being famous for developing breathing techniques for aesthmatics was criminal IMHO, but what I will say, the Breath techniques I have learnt recently, have transformed me drastically, breath and movement, everything else is secondary.
     
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  9. Gweilo

    Gweilo Blue Belt

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    Just to give an idea, if anyone else wants to try, I do this when I walk my dogs, the Russian breath ladder, you start by breathing in for 1 step, you then breath out for 1 step, the in breath must last for the one step, as does the out breath, then you make the in breath last for 2 steps, as the out breath, at present I can without speeding up my pace, make an in breath last for 72 steps my target is 100, the idea is you can pace the breath so the oxygen intake and Co2 out breath is regulated even under pressure, you can change your needs to your breath pattern, to your rythem or your need for recovery, i.e matching your breath rate to your heart beat.
     
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  10. Buka

    Buka Grandmaster

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    I had never heard of this. I'll be on a walking beat at work next Monday and Tuesday, I can't wait to try this out.

    Crazy Russians. I love it.
     
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  11. Gweilo

    Gweilo Blue Belt

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    Walking beat will be an excellent way for practicing breath techniques, the one mentioned is great, but the one I practice most are the basic breath ladders, which come in 4 ways.
    Firstly you must keep good posture as walk, try to remain as relaxed as you can, breath in through nose out through mouth, and walking at your normal pace breath in for one step, breath out for 1 step, then breath in for 2 steps out for 2, up to 15 steps to start with, try not to breath in until your lungs are so full it causes you to gag, or panic, and try to be as smooth as possible, try to control the amount of breath released or taken in so the breath last for all the steps, once at 15, go back down to 1.
    Then once you have the hang of it, try a triangle breath pattern, same as before, but a in breath for 1 step, hold your breath for 1 step, then exhale for 1 step, again up to 15 to start with then down to 1, again try to keep the breath smooth and each phase last for all the steps.
    3rd is the square breath, breath in for 1 step, hold for 1 step, exhale for 1 step, and an empty lung hold for 1 step, this is the harder one, again up to 15, and back to 1. This one is harder when you exchange the steps, for a press up, sit up etc, so 1 situp on an in breath, 1 on a full hold, 1 on an exhale, 1 on an empty hold, then 2, up to 5 reps, so a whole cycle would be 60 sit ups, once you have mastered it. Then after 5 mins recovering by stretching and rolling, move to press ups, leg raises, squats, and pull ups, just to be clear 5 situp's whilst breathing in once, 5 on a hold etc.
    The 4th is slightly different, I call sausage breath, I use it when I walk my dogs, breath in for 4 steps, hold for 4 steps, exhale for 8 steps, excellent for clearing out carbon dioxide, great for an early morning walk.
    For recovering yourself, especially when you first try the square breath pattern, is burst breathing, when under stress or to regain your breath after excersion, in through the nose, out through the mouth, try to match your heart beat for approx 8 seconds, then take a deep in breath, and then exhale, burst breath again for 8 seconds, deep in take exhale, after 3 cycles you will find you are pretty much restored.
     
  12. Buka

    Buka Grandmaster

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    I got it.

    I've done a bunch of breathing stuff, I got it. Just have to be able to do it so I don't look like a guy doing a bunch of breathing exercises and frighten the tourists.
     
  13. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    I hadn't heard of it used to that extent (nor the name), but I've worked with a similar approach, even with my running (where my asthma would kick in, making it even more useful).

    I work with breathing nearly every class. It's incorporated as a conscious practice in the wrist exercises we use as part of the cool-down. I keep wanting to incorporate something into warm-ups as well, but I'm resisting the urge to expand those exercises right now.
     
  14. Gweilo

    Gweilo Blue Belt

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    As with most MA the actual truth about origins is murky, but from what I am told, the origins of Russian breath techniques may have originated from DR Konstantin buteyko, the chap who is known for breathing techniques for Aesthmatics, as I understand it he could predict the death of sick patients within minutes, due to their breath patterns, and could control the pain of his own illness by changing his own breath patterns, this we know is true as there is evidence for. But the next part of the story is murky, Dr Buteyko did produce a medical paper of his studies to the Soviet medical council, which was reported to have been rejected on the grounds of insurficient evidence, which there is evidence for this report, what is not substantiated is whether or not it was true, he was seconded into the military to help formulate military training.
    But what I can tell you, since training theses methods, my endurance, recovery, have improved drastically, and in a couple of instances where the has been a threat of violence towards myself, my breathing has helped me remain calm, not nervous, no adrenaline rush, and very little tension, and been relaxed, but ready to react. Stress is dealt with very quickly, by using the breath techniques in more common way, breath in a creating tension through my body, breath out and relaxing, or perfoming movement, that is linked to my inhale and exhale, relaxing or getting to sleep is not a problem, at 49 I can easy do 10 hours of shut eye every night.
     
  15. Gweilo

    Gweilo Blue Belt

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    The difference between Systema breathing and those of Yoga and Qi Gong, again I make no claims systema is better, just different.
    Historically techniques for training breath, movement and posture have existed, most with impressive credentials, and are connected with medical and religious traditions of China and India, who's methods sound similar, but philosophy, focus and practice differ fundamentally.
    The methods of Yoga and qi gong cultivate awareness of breath by means of extended series of complicated postures, which require great attention to inner states and extreme physiological control, in Systema the breath alone is primary, which only teaches us to extend our awareness of what we already have, we do not refer to deep channels of energy within our body.
    The posture, exercises and processes of systema are simple in structure and appearance, and the benefits come as we begin to better our understanding of our natural body, mind and emotions, under difficult but controlled conditions, and challenges us right at the edge of our current strength levels.
    I have no wish to knock other arts, some arts believe they reach a state of perfect physical balance and they achieve a mystical state, they may well do this, I have never tried, they may be able to in quiet rooms, with nice carpets, soft music in the background, and the smell of incense wafting around the room, and if that works for them that's great, but I wonder if the can achieve this state, when they are cold, hungry, or an agressive 115 kg person wants to punch their face in, I am not sure.
    In Systema dealing with stress is a skill that can be refined, by controlling our breath in stressful situations, means our body remains free of emotions like fear, and free from tension, which means we can hold good posture, which means we can move, which means we can survive (now I wait for the barrage from yoga and qi kong practioners).
     
  16. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    The thing is. That is pretty easy to test. You could just hard wrestle a guy for three rounds.

     
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  17. Gweilo

    Gweilo Blue Belt

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    I do on a regular basis, the approach to training in class changes every month, last months approach was working on the ground, every class we pressure test at the end 1/3 of the class, then it culminates to a class at the end of each month, which is structured by a stretch and warm up period, followed by 3 mins floor sparring, where each of the paired students, go full on looking to escape, grapple, strike, apply submissions etc, followed by 1 min rest, change partners, then for another 3 mins, this round Robin if you like will last 45 mins or so. Obviously, if you are paired with a less experienced student, I will turn it into a play/exploration/experimental type session, but my next opponent may be stronger or quicker, or larger, so there is a puzzle to solve. This months approach is distance and timing is the main focus, next month it may be stick or knife, or multiple attackers, and I am not a once a week guy, I do Mondays, Tuesdays, Thursdays, and most Saturday mornings, so I know the benefits of these breath techniques work.
     
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