Skip Dan Test

Discussion in 'Tae-Kwon-Do' started by Nikos Botsios, Aug 16, 2019.

  1. dvcochran

    dvcochran Senior Master

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    But they are not the same certification. Electricians, plumbers, orthopedics, gynecologists, etc..., all have different training and certification. There are one man companies up to mega corporations so size is not a leading factor. In some professions there are layers in broad brush strokes, bachelors in whatever for example, but I see no reason there could not be something similar for different styles. There are specialty fields in every skilled trade I can think of so why can't there be "specialist" or unique styles within a given system?
     
  2. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    That was my point - it wouldn't be a single thing, but one for each group (I thought you were saying it would be a single source). I'm not sure how different that would be from what we have now. There would be an arbiter of who belongs in each list, and that's going to be back to who's in an association.
     
  3. Flying Crane

    Flying Crane Sr. Grandmaster

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    Who gets to be the authority for each system, in establishing the credentials? Gonna be LOTS of argument over that, just for starters.

    Martial arts are/were a folk art, passed down from generation to generation, among families and close-knit societies. Personally I would like to see it stay that way. I think big certifying agencies are not necessarily a good thing.
     
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  4. dvcochran

    dvcochran Senior Master

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    Why would that go away? A vehicle to help people Not end up being sucker for a disreputable person/school is never a bad thing. It is no difference from the risk people take going to a soothsayer vs. going to a credentialed doctor. The choice would always be there.
     
  5. Flying Crane

    Flying Crane Sr. Grandmaster

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    So it really just becomes another organization. Participation is optional and it has no real authority other than among those who choose to belong.
     
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  6. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    I guess I don't see how that's any different from any MA association.
     
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  7. dvcochran

    dvcochran Senior Master

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    I don't see it that way at all. Diligence and effort go a long way. The instructors/schools who value being known/seen as credible will make every effort to be seen that way. Why is there something wrong with certifying that their product And their business is credible? The average person who has zero MA exposure would benefit from such tools. So would the MA community as a whole.
    No, I don't feel participation should be optional but it would infringe on free enterprise to say that.
     
  8. Flying Crane

    Flying Crane Sr. Grandmaster

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    I’m trying to make sure I understand what you are saying. Is this a government credential or something you envision? Oversight on a governmental level?
     
  9. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    There's nothing wrong with the concept. But how will it be done? On what basis will a given instructor/school be certified?
     
  10. dvcochran

    dvcochran Senior Master

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    You know how these things go. A number of people, supposed experts debate that question for years and finally enough common ground is found to develop a process. Then the competition begins to decide/vote on who is going to be in charge. Eventually some fruitful and reliable results are established.
     
  11. dvcochran

    dvcochran Senior Master

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    It would have to have some kind of regulatory commission so yes, it would likely be a government entity. At the very least industry regulators, (like OSHA, EPA, NFPA, etc...)
     
  12. Flying Crane

    Flying Crane Sr. Grandmaster

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    Ok well, I disagree with government regulation in this particular arena, and given the sheer number of different martial arts, some of which are obscure and have very few practitioners, I cannot imagine how it could be successful. It would likely reduce them all down to some simplistic common denominator with everything the same. I think it could be the death of many systems.

    Actually, likely it would all go underground and people would just keep doing what they do. It would just prevent people from opening schools and teaching openly. It might ensure that most of it goes back into the arena of a folk method. Likely the results would be the opposite of what is intended.

    Hmmm... how exciting...
     
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  13. Flying Crane

    Flying Crane Sr. Grandmaster

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    Ask the wing Chun folks who they all would be willing to accept as the National Wing Chun Authority. See if you can get any consensus on that...
     
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  14. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    In my experience, what happens instead is that the exact process you describe occurs, and results in disagreement and competing standards. Which is pretty much what we have now. As I said, I like the concept, but I don't see how it ever ends up with a single authority, even within a given group of arts.

    Let's start with a simpler question: what would be certified? That, even, would likely be an area of contention. Does it certify that the instructor has trained for the number of years they claim (with whom, at what regularity, etc.)? Does it certify that they're approved to teach (approved by whom, to teach what, to what level, etc.)? Does it certify that they are passing along something that accurately represents that art (as designated by whom)?
     
  15. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    I know of a few WC folks who'd be willing to claim that position. :D
     
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  16. Flying Crane

    Flying Crane Sr. Grandmaster

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    Oh I’m sure they would be willing and eager to claim it. But how many would accept them in that role? I’m guessing nobody who lies outside their direct downstream lineage.

    Take Tibetan White Crane. There are very few people in the US who even practice it. Good luck even tracking them down to determine who the real authority is. Good luck getting an 80 year-old Chinese immigrant to take a job as a government regulator. Does a system like this just get overlooked, and by default becomes illegal to teach because it is unregulated?

    Take a look at all the variations within the American Kenpo groups. There is so much inconsistency between different groups and lineages, and some heavy egos in the mix, there is no way they would submit as a body, to some regulators.
     
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  17. skribs

    skribs Senior Master

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    I don't even train Wing Chun and I'll claim that position.
     
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  18. dvcochran

    dvcochran Senior Master

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    Requirements could include:
    Proven competency in given skills (SD, competition sparring/forms/breaking, stretching, philosophy, more).
    Health and safety
    Building, workout area standards
    Business model/promotion/networking

    These should be refined over time.

    The first bullet would have the heaviest weight. Just like with certification and qualification in other professions a person history, experience, and promotion within their style(s) would accelerate the process. If a person wanted to stay independent and was not worried about student/class size it would not be very important to them. The has and always will be room for both. They are not mutually exclusive. I have never felt there is enough networking within the MA community outside a given style/organization.
     
  19. Flying Crane

    Flying Crane Sr. Grandmaster

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    How does one prove the competency, and who is the judge of that?
     
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  20. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    This is where most of the problem lies. How will the governmental body know what I ought to be teaching? Or the MMA coach down the road? Or the guy who trains Olympic hopefuls for TKD?

    The business areas of it are irrelevant to someone's teaching ability, especially where that's not the objective of the school (not trying to run it for profit).

    Again, the concept is tempting, but as soon as any details are examined, it gets hard for me to imagine it being successful. Within a single organization, it kind of works, but even there it tends to stifle evolution of technique. How much more restrictive will it become when it has a larger bureaucracy behind it?

    I could see this, instead, as a way to set up a program to help build stronger schools. I toyed at one time with the idea of setting up instructor workshop series, working with some good instructors to build curriculum to help all of us improve. Kind of like a SCORE (Service Corps Of Retired Executives) concept for MA. I could even imagine an Associate's degree (for those outside the US, that's a 2-year degree typically earned from a community college) that includes basic small business training, learning theory (adult and juvenile), safety, etc.
     

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