Skip Dan Test

Discussion in 'Tae-Kwon-Do' started by Nikos Botsios, Aug 16, 2019.

  1. Nikos Botsios

    Nikos Botsios White Belt

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    Hello to eveyrone in martial arts community I hope you are fine and having a great time.
    I would like to ask you something: Can you have a Skip Dan Test right now or Kukkiwon stopped it?
     
  2. Gweilo

    Gweilo Black Belt

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    How can you skip a dan, double grade at a lower level, but skip a dan, sounds like a con to me
     
  3. kempodisciple

    kempodisciple MT Moderator Staff Member

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    Check out this thread for reasons why

    Skip dan testing?
     
  4. skribs

    skribs Senior Master

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    There's a lot of reasons I can think of. The two biggest are:
    1. Similar rank in a similar organization
    2. Stuck in an area with nobody who can promote you
     
  5. kempodisciple

    kempodisciple MT Moderator Staff Member

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    The third one in that list: you earned the rank, but for whatever reason (clerical error, deceit/greed, or laziness) your instructor never sent your stuff to the kukkiwon without your knowledge.
     
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  6. skribs

    skribs Senior Master

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    We've had students at my school who were supposed to test for black belt at their old school, paid cash, and then the instructor skipped town.
     
  7. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    There are a lot of reasons this could happen. I don't know about Kukkiwon, but some organizations do it if someone tests for one dan, but is actually able to pass the next dan up. With contribution-based dan ranks (upper ranks for contribution to the art) it's a bit more common, especially where the rank is part of the hierarchy.
     
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  8. kempodisciple

    kempodisciple MT Moderator Staff Member

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    Sadly this seems to be at least somewhat common. And the worst part of it is, there's nothing kukkiwon (or any other organization) can do about it. They can't prevent someone from claiming they will send the information, and they don't know if someone is telling the truth, when they claimed they were wronged that way.
     
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  9. skribs

    skribs Senior Master

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    And because they paid cash, there's no proof they even paid when they want to report the guy for fraud.
     
  10. WaterGal

    WaterGal Master of Arts

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    My understanding is that they've set some limitations, but it's still possible. I think you have to have gotten your first dan (so if your instructor did one those shady things mentioned and you never even got a real KKW 1st dan, you're SOL), and there's a limit to how many dan grades you can skip. You have to have enough time in grade to have done the proper way, too, so you can't use skip dan testing to rank up faster. The person promoting you needs to write to KKW some document explaining to them your circumstances, training history, and why they think you deserve the skip dan, and then KKW will decide if that's a good enough reason or not.
     
  11. Headhunter

    Headhunter Senior Master

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    And that is why I never pay for tests until the day of them
     
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  12. skribs

    skribs Senior Master

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    Or if they had paid with credit or check, they could at least prove they made payment.
     
  13. kempodisciple

    kempodisciple MT Moderator Staff Member

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    Even then, if you're in an organization, you can pass the test, and they run off without processing your degree with the org. Which is fine, except for when you go somewhere else, and they have to decide if they want to honor the rank you're claiming.
     
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  14. Flying Crane

    Flying Crane Sr. Grandmaster

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    And you could make a fraud claim with your credit card, if you paid for a service that was never rendered, and a refund is refused. Credit card company will likely give you the refund, and may investigate the transaction and possibly go after the instructor. But it’s out of your hands at that point. At least you got your money back.
     
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  15. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    There's even a sideways chance that the instructor wants to keep the money so will "resolve the dispute" by filing the promotion with the association.
     
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  16. Flying Crane

    Flying Crane Sr. Grandmaster

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    Yup, might need a kick in the pants to get it done.
     
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  17. dvcochran

    dvcochran Senior Master

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    As with many things nowadays I think there will soon be an online system to reduce/prevent such occurrences. It would certainly shore up the validity and integrity of the belt system. There would have to be some kind of 2-way system to verify the person testing is qualified on both ends and not on a Rambo mission. This could be a systemic part of school/instructor certification as well.
     
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  18. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    I could see that within a large organization. Not sure at all how that would work outside the context of a single organization.
     
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  19. dvcochran

    dvcochran Senior Master

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    I can make a comparison to people who are certified in a skilled trade. Whether it is as an electrician or a doctor there are steps to be certified and recognized as an authority in your field. There have always been shade tree mechanics and witch doctors so I don't think any system would be perfect.
    The gist is it would never prevent someone from practicing or being involved in MA. It would remove many outliers that have caused reputation issues for many years.
    Yes, it would be more difficult for the average bloke to open "Joe's karate school". I don't think that is a bad thing.
     
  20. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    It would be more problematic than that. Imagine if the same system of certification were to be applied to electricians, plumbers, and general contractors. That's not far from analogous to trying to include TKD, BJJ, and Aikido in the same system. At best, you'd need a separate system for each group of arts. And how do you account (in that system) for un-aligned ranks (10-yr shodan vs 3-yr shodan)? I don't really think it's workable. And if it were imposed, it would drive folks to stay within larger organizations, reducing the evolution that happens as groups split.
     
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