Sharing a little knowledge.

Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Talk' started by JowGaWolf, Oct 2, 2019.

  1. Mitlov

    Mitlov Blue Belt

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    I agree it's important that to build fighting ability, you regularly get hit for all the reasons you say. The ability to not lose your head when you get punched right in the face is really important, and can't be taught without actually getting punched right in the face.

    But I don't agree that every single drill you do, you need to get hit. There are certain drills we do where I'm trying to train something specific, and being hit in the face a lot would not enhance that particular drill. In those situations, I pull each shot before it lands. But on Monday night sparring nights we hit and get hit tons, and if I don't see a punch coming, I eat it.
     
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  2. JowGaWolf

    JowGaWolf Grandmaster

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    lol I'm pretty sure that's not true.
    upload_2019-10-3_20-33-33.jpeg

    While there is a psychological barrier, it quickly goes away when that person isn't being blasted by their sparring partner. Like most things start with light sparring and then increase the intensity as they get get used to the impact, Pair the person who is afraid with someone they feel comfortable with and with someone who can maintain the amount of force required to keep that comfort level.

    After a while that person will learn that the punches and kicks won't kill them. Some times you just have to ease people into the idea of being hit. After a person has some decent defense they'll learn to analyze how hard someone is hitting by how it lands on their guard. It also helps to let the person who is afraid know, that if their partner is hitting to hard then simply tell them to ease up.

    Keep that up for about 6 months with sparing once every week and you'll notice that the "psychological barrier" becomes smaller.
     
  3. JowGaWolf

    JowGaWolf Grandmaster

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    ha ha ha.. The problem is, that if I'm successful with pulling off the technique then you are automatically assuming that my opponent sucks lol. That's a no win for me.

    It's like. "if you get hit with that crap, then you must suck". If that's the case then I won't bother looking for the video. lol. But for now I'm just going to cover The second and 3rd part of this technique which is the pulling of the guard, redirecting a punch, and follow up. I'll get into the big wheel punches on a later date.
     
  4. JowGaWolf

    JowGaWolf Grandmaster

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    It's like swinging a bat. I can't ask you to swing a bat faster, but hit me softly. If I swing faster force is coming with it. If I swing faster then I have to make sure that my opponent can deal with the force that comes with it.

    Some techniques you have have fast hands and be gentle. This is one is not one of those techniques.
     
  5. JowGaWolf

    JowGaWolf Grandmaster

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    I like that one a lot. I wish my school used that when I first got into Jow Ga. Blocks

    Here is what we first learn. It's the technique at (1:34). It's the same technique that I'm discussing in the original video. There are 3 parts of it. The first part is the open hand part as if it's waving at the opponent. The second part is the downward pull / redirect. Each part has multiple applications, I use mine as a pulling of the guard or pulling or redirection of a punch. The Third part is can be a punch or grab. I haven't used the grab yet. The 4th part is a punch. We are taught that it's a jab but it could be other types of punches as well. Even though there are 4 parts we treat part of it as one movement because it doesn't really stop.
     
  6. JowGaWolf

    JowGaWolf Grandmaster

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    Here you can see Lomachenko use what is basically the same technique in concept. Pull the lead guard and punch the face.

    He does his punch on the first go, with a jab. In my video I teach it to punch on the second because some times the opening isn't on the first punch it's on the second punch. First or second, it just depends on where the opening is. I used this technique back to back and eventually the person I was sparring with started to pick up what I was doing it, So did the same thing but exited on the opposite and landed a punch on the opposite side.

    Someone stated that no one is going to hold their hand out for someone to pull them, but in this video you see just that. The guard isn't high and up close to the face. The best guard that you'll have is one that will allow you to travel the shortest distance to strike your target and allows you to travel the shortest distance to intercept a punch.
     
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  7. JowGaWolf

    JowGaWolf Grandmaster

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    100% correct

    If you were too worried about being punched hard in the face then you would never take the risk that comes with learning. You can still get hit in the face, but it can't be so hard that you don't want to try the technique again in fear that if you mess up that your face is seeing stars. In addition it's not always necessary to be hit in the face to understand that you screwed up. If the person is honest with themselves then they will be honest about messing up and realizing that had it been a real fight then that mistake would have been a costly one.
     
  8. JowGaWolf

    JowGaWolf Grandmaster

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    Not sure if there is any confusion about this technique. It may look like I'm using a parry but I'm not. It's more of a redirect / replacement. I want to redirect the punch and pull it into a position that creates some imbalance which forces the body to spend time to regain balance first before the fist is pulled back to reload. It doesn't need to be big imbalance, it just has to be enough change the brain's priority.

    No matter what you do or how good you are, your body will always make reclaiming balance a priority, which is why so many martial arts systems always talk about destroying or disrupting the root. Regaining balance is something we naturally do, there is no cut off switch that will allow you to not react to it.

    This is the science behind the balance stuff. The Vestibular System: The Brain and Balance It wouldn't allow me to embed it.

    The direction that you pull the guard in varies depending on the position you are in. Most of the time you'll pull our opponent's guard or punch down and slightly to the outside of the body. This position is a weak position for pulling the hand back up and slows the reloading the of the punching hand. The thing that I really like is that the technique isn't trying to greatly increase the time of my opponent's ability at one point. It takes a little bit of time from pulling the guard, It takes a little bit of time from each stage and that little bit adds up. So If I increase the time to reload a punch by .3 seconds at each stage, then at the end of 3 stages a total of .9 seconds have actually been lost. Which in fighting could mean the different between getting a glancing blow and a full on solid hit that makes you forget where you are.
     
  9. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    Blair Frew

    Whitsunday martial arts or WMA is our club.
     
  10. Martial D

    Martial D Senior Master

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    No man. I'm judging your partners by watching them. Apprehensive, stiff, imobile. No head movement. No guard. Flinchy.

    Beginners.

    It's easy to get confident in any old thing when there is little to no risk or reprisal.
     
  11. wab25

    wab25 Black Belt

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    This is a great video, illustrating what I am talking about. The older guy takes a punch to the face... and did not get knocked out, did notsee stars... did not get hurt. He also delivered his shots, they made impact and his partner was fine. Their punches were intended to make contact, which made the person defending have to defend properly. Once you can get the technique working at this speed, you can start ramping up the speed and intensity.

    I kind of like the idea that everyone here seems to think that if I hit them once, they will be knocked out, have a concussion, see stars or at least be injured in some fashion. Not sure how I got that reputation... But, thats not what I am talking about. Punches are not binary. They are not full power, full speed or no power and off target. They should all be on target. The speed and power can vary greatly. But they should all be on target and should all intend to hit. (and should hit, if the other guy misses... it can be a slow and very light hit, while he learns)
     
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  12. TSDTexan

    TSDTexan Master of Arts

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    The way i train with my students.

    first learn the movements in isolation under direct supervision. solo drill. low speed. about 200x

    repeat at medium speed again 200 times.

    then partner drill begins but at a distance apart of 8 to twelve feet. low speed. 50 times.
    the goal is to learn to visual sync the defense drill to the correct moment (not to early, not too late, with 0 risk of failure)

    repeat at medium speed 10 times.

    close distance of three to four feet. actual fighting range.
    30x repetions slow... almost like taichi speed. focusing on the mechanics.

    next step, dial up the speed of the partner drill to 50% repeat 10 times. focus on accuracy.

    next step 75% speed focusing on power control.

    Now either using focus mitts or kicking shield, or rib protector (if attacking the body) the attacker is struck with actual counters at 50% power and 75% speed. 20-30 reps.

    after this free sparring.. and trying to get the student to do the drilled action while in the chaotic flow of free sparing. first with light protection (soft pad sparring gloves & mouthguard) and medium to 75% power. several weeks.

    then for high level advanced students heavy protection. rib protector, boxing headguard, rib protector and full speed @ 30% power working upwards over time to 60 to 70%. many months.

    then for the highest level students. mouthpiece only. full speed but 10% power for a week. each week increase power 10%.
     
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  13. JowGaWolf

    JowGaWolf Grandmaster

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    I think the short clip is giving you an assumption that there is no risk. There was always risks with this guy. He has the habit of hitting harder than he should for sparring to learn. To him it was always about winning and out doing sparring partners.
     
  14. oftheherd1

    oftheherd1 Senior Master

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    I don't know how to explain other than to say the mind has to be trained to know that practice is practice and a fight is a fight. It can be done.

    Granted the attacker when he has learned proper striking (or kicking) technique isn't supposed to be hit. And that is indeed the goal; be able to block and not be hit. Then you don't care what it feels like to be hit. You are training not to be hit.

    Now I understand there are many variables that affect an outcome. But that is the goal, don't be hit because of poor blocking.

    Maybe I was wrong, but I understood in the first bolded and underlined words you were saying you thought a full force strike was correct, but you seem to be saying otherwise in the second. Please clarify for me so I can correctly understand your meaning.

    And you are correct, I have never trained in an MMA gym. Actually, I kind of doubt anyone was in the mid-60s when I studied TKD, or in the mid-80s when I began studying HKD. If it was being done, I hadn't heard of it.

    And anyway, as I mentioned before, when I studied TKD, I was taught not to make a full force strike (other than a block), less likely by misdirecting a strike, but rather controlling when it stopped. We were expected to realize if our practice opponent unexpectedly moved in to the strike, to stop its force. If it was the only option, then we could misdirect.

    EDIT: Truth in reporting: I was not yet very good at controlling my strikes. I only attained 8th green before life got in the way and I had to stop training. But there were those who did it very well; usually by somewhere in the 4 brown belt levels.
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2019
  15. Martial D

    Martial D Senior Master

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    In a fight situation the mind is largely an observer as the body does what it was trained to do.
    That just isn't realistic. You WILL be hit. Blocks don't work reliably. There are thousands and thousands of documented fights among professional trained fighters that serve as pretty bulletproof evidence of this.

    In order to block a strike you need to be several orders of magnitude faster than the other guy, or already be in position for it. This is why cover is preferable.

    .


    There is a difference between not going full force and not connecting(or attempting to) at all.
    Ya that's just it. When you add contact and competition to martial arts a lot of variables are different from training without these things.
     
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  16. Mitlov

    Mitlov Blue Belt

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    He said MMA didn't exist in the 1960s-1980s, not that contact and competition didn't exist then. Candidly, the 1970s and 1980s were when a lot of karate and TKD were rowdiest, from what I've heard. This is back in the day when Chuck Norris and folks were competitive fighters.
     
  17. TSDTexan

    TSDTexan Master of Arts

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    Have to agree..... not many lawyers filling lawsuits back then, and male social norms leaned way more John Wayne. My Master's Teacher gave him his blackbelt for the accomplishment of breaking the teachers rib. No easy feat to do to the guy who knocked out a prime Bill Wallace with a flying spinning backkick in a tournament.

    This same teacher spent 12 years at Osan Air Base, and was classmates with Carlos Ray Norris (who got his name Chuck as same airbase) right up until Chuck finished his 18th months and rotated back to the US.
    Chuck was given his chodan weeks before his departure. They were both military security (SP) Police.

    The late 60s and early 70s were the wild west of American martial arts.

    61b67f80eec17f77d170634e150612bc.jpg
     
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  18. Mitlov

    Mitlov Blue Belt

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    1980s too. Growing up in Colorado, I remember the Sabaki Challenge in Denver each year was a big deal.



    And when even "point karate" was a bare-knuckle affair with extended action before the referee called a halt to assess a point.



    (Disclaimer: I was not personally training then. I'm remembering a cultural institution, not remembering my own personal training or anything like that)
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2019
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  19. Xue Sheng

    Xue Sheng All weight is underside

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    Like I have said before, the first dojo I trained in, way back in 1972, was Japanese Jujutsu and we had no mats, no protective gear and the dojo was also a fencing school and there was an entire wall of fencing masks and fencing foils on one side of the dojo. Cut my knuckles up on one of the fencing masks by accident one day......Don't think you would see a dojo like that today...and that might b a god thing, but we did learn jujutsu
     
  20. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

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    Most of my training build on the "pull guard". As long as you have 2 plans:

    When you pull guard, your opponent may

    - resist, or.
    - yield.
     
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