Training On Slippery Surfaces

Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Talk' started by PhotonGuy, Oct 2, 2019.

  1. PhotonGuy

    PhotonGuy Senior Master

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    The following training method is not recommended for beginners in the martial arts. In the real world you don't control what kind of environment you might be in when trouble rears its ugly head. You could be on a slippery floor or ground when you have to defend yourself. As such it sometimes might be a good idea to train on slippery surfaces, a wet tiled floor for example.

    This training method can be dangerous and its only recommended for experienced martial arts practitioners and people who know how to properly fall. Doing kicking drills on slippery surfaces can be particularly dangerous and is only recommended for people who have experience doing proper break falls in case you do fall since there is a much greater risk of falling when you do kicking drills on slippery surfaces as opposed to hand striking drills.

    As this training method can be dangerous it can also be important in case you ever are in an environment where you're standing on a slippery surface and you have to defend yourself.

    Disclaimer: Do this training method at your own risk. It is only recommended for people with good experience in the martial arts including being able to properly fall. I take no responsibility for anybody who gets hurt when they try out this training method.
     
  2. Rat

    Rat 2nd Black Belt

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    Lesson One: Dont kick

    Lesson Two: don't start a fight in a grease factory.

    To be fair, i wish pretty much every martial art did break falls at the start, even in striking ones if you get knocked in the head you are still going to fall down, and can slip/trip etc. Largely irrelevant to the main point though.

    More for a serious comment in relation to the first two points i made, you shouldn't be taking one of your legs off the ground if you are on unstable footing, or if you think you are going to be ran down, and if the ground is that slippery, its just going to turn into a bad wrestling game, which you can emulate doing it in mud or something, you dont really need to do anything on slippery ground, you can just practice break falling on a variety of surfaces and ground fighting and it will do you just as good without any risk factor.(in relation to doing the break falls, there is always a risk factor in any training anyway)

    Because you are either going to be put in a inferior position trying to stay standing, or go straight on the floor, and the person fighting you is either going to put all effort into staying up right, or go down with you.

    Maybe, having someone walk over something slippery, or making a area slippery so they can get a feel for it, or that was being implied and i didnt understand.


    Also, those laminated wooden floors are pretty slippery if you just wear socks, you are going to go sliding all over the place. Its why you either keep shoes on or go barefooted.


    just for interests sake, did you think this one up? or where did it come from?
     
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  3. wab25

    wab25 Black Belt

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    If you train on a wood floor... just wear your socks while training.
     
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  4. jobo

    jobo Grandmaster

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    what sort of slippery surface are you thinking of and how slippery exactly. im not doing anything rash if I'm on ice or anything else with a similar co efficient of friction because your going over.I dont put ceramic tyles on my bathroom floor as they are extremely slippery when wet, I've been over a few times in hotells and it seem to have a very low change of a being a venue for an attack. so what exactly are you thinking of? wet polished dance or gym cpfloors can be a bit of a problem , but then it's the same for both and they very much are as slippery as ice

    nearly everything else can be extensively mitigated by having the correct footware on, if your wearing polished leather soles on wet stone steps, it's your own fault
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2019
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  5. pdg

    pdg Senior Master

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    Pfft.

    Lesson one: learn to kick properly.

    Lesson two: learn to read the ground.



    I like to practice on anything I can get.

    Ice, snow, wet slabs, stones in a river, wet grass with and without leaves, mud, sand, gravel, wood decking, balanced on a 4" fencepost...

    Also in as many different types of clothing as possible - training suit, shorts, jeans, salopettes - and footwear, barefoot, trainers, dress shoes, walking boots, steel toecap work boots...


    Any surface is workable with the right footwear - some surface/footwear combinations just don't work. All part of the reading.
     
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  6. PhotonGuy

    PhotonGuy Senior Master

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    It should be possible to kick proficiently, even on slippery surfaces, with good adequate training.

    Don't start a fight, period. The martial arts is about being a peacemaker not a troublemaker.

    Yes break falls I agree are an important skill to learn regardless of the art you train in. With my drills I am able to do kicks on slippery surfaces although as you point out, in an actual self defense situation if could turn into a bad wrestling match, although I do know how to grapple as I train in BJJ as well. But there are kicks that can be made to work even if you're on unstable footing. In such a situation its probably best to keep kicks low, as in knee height and lower. A particularly effective kick to use against an opponent on a slippery surface is the leg sweep.

    My basement, where I do much of my training, has a tiled floor. I've got Torso Bob which is a striking dummy that's shaped like a human torso without arms, you're probably familiar with it. Torso Bob is on a base that is filled with water. Anyway, my base has a slow leak that becomes aggravated when Torso Bob is used, making the floor wet. As such I keep a towel around when I train with Torso Bob to wipe up the water from the floor when it does leak. Recently I've sometimes let the floor stay wet and proceeded to do my striking drills, including kicking drills, on a wet slippery surface for the added challenge and to prepare for the situation if I ever do have to use self defense and Im on a slippery surface.
     
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  7. PhotonGuy

    PhotonGuy Senior Master

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    The kind of slippery surface I sometimes train on is a wet tiled floor, as I mention in post #6.
     
  8. PhotonGuy

    PhotonGuy Senior Master

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    Ever do kicking drills where you kick a dummy while wearing flip flops? I have.
     
  9. jobo

    jobo Grandmaster

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    yes and as I mentioned above, why ? have you ever been attacked on a wet tile surface or think it's a likely ,unless your intending to fight on a surface as slippery in the real world,I and let's face it they certainly are slippery,there seems little point putting yourself at risk with no practical benifit, why not train on mud at least that's a bit more realistic, and a bit softer if you fall
     
  10. geezer

    geezer Grandmaster

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    Back in the 80s, my old Chinese sifu, Leung Ting would come out from the kitchen in a bathrobe and flip-flops still holding a bowl of noodles in one hand and demonstrate kicks. sweeps, and footwork ...even the WT "drag-step". It was amazing to see.
     
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  11. geezer

    geezer Grandmaster

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    You think getting into a fight on a super slippery surface is unlikely?

    .
    ..Obviously you don't play hockey.
     
  12. Rat

    Rat 2nd Black Belt

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    I just came up with a second usage of this, to test what your shoes treads grip on.
     
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  13. jobo

    jobo Grandmaster

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    I have played hockey, it wasnt any more slippery than any grass pitch
     
  14. geezer

    geezer Grandmaster

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    I'm guessing you were wearing skates then.

    But you are quite right, playing hockey is no slippery-er (if that's even a word) than rugby on wet grass, and both can end up being pretty much a brawl!
     
  15. yak sao

    yak sao Master of Arts

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    You reminded me of something that happened with Leung Ting many years ago.
    He was in Louisville with Emin teaching a two day seminar. We all went out to lunch and since we had time to kill, he wanted to do a little sight seeing.
    It was October, the leaves were changing colors and we were driving past this scenic park with a nice lake and a huge beautifully colored tree beside it.
    He asked to stop so he could go get a picture of it. So my buddy, who I shared the WT school with pulls over. Emin is jet lagged, so he stays in the car to nap and my buddy stays to keep him company.
    So here I am hiking across this field with Leung Ting. He has me take a picture of him standing in front of the tree by the lake, and then he decides he wants to get a nice picture of the tree.
    So he is walking backwards trying to get the tree into his viewfinder. I'm just standing there not paying a lot of attention and I turned around just in time to see him back into these large rocks that were at the lakes spill way.
    It was this large area with a decline with all of these rocks of various sizes that were very unstable.
    Before I could say " watch out ", he stumbled into the rocks, and for the next several seconds I got an impromptu demonstration of excellent footwork as he stepped, crouched, jumped and hopped backwards across these loose unstable rocks, coming out on the other side stabilizing himself in a character two stance. Then he snaps the picture.
    I just stood there and looked at him and he looked at me, I said to him "that was really amazing!"
    He just smiled and said thank you .

    The best footwork demonstration I've ever seen, and it was personally demonstrated just for me.
     
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  16. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    There is a striking mechanic that demands your hips and feet follow your movement.

    And it is designed to prevent things like over reaching.

    Zombie takedowns is a good example.

    It is also a very good mechanic for fighting on slippery surfaces. (Which I have had to do)

    So there is a sneaky side benefit to training in slippery surfaces which is to show when you don't really have the footwork in place.
     
  17. jobo

    jobo Grandmaster

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    no just hockey, no skates ice or roller, just a pair of football boots, you do know it's a real sport played on a hockey pitch made of grass, long before they perversely stuck it on ice, played with no padding or helmets, what is it with the north Americans they can5 play anything with out a hard hat on

    it's almost the same rules as soccer apart from the sticks obviously
     
  18. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    And most importantly. Australia is the best at it.
    | Outdoor | FIH
     
  19. pdg

    pdg Senior Master

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    I meant to include flip flops, but forgot...

    Here's mine to make up for it:

    IMG_20191003_100258397~2.jpg

    I don't have access to a dummy though, but heavy bag or paddles...

    Possibly the most awkward footwear imo - but have the advantage of being quick to shake off and have bare feet available instead.
     

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