Really discouraged!

[Dirty Dog]

So the technique does work if done fast enough?

I can hit you if I do it before you can block or evade. I can block your strike if I do it before you hit me. Does the word "Duh" mean anything to you.

Cause in the video he wasn't doing it fast.

That's because the video is a staged demo intended for an audience composed primarily of the ignorant.

I was just thinking that if a technique only works if you're fast enough then doing this technique is risky cause if you're not fast enough you
have a problem.

Do you even stop to think at all before you post? Sitting on your *** pretending you're a martial artist because you watched some YouTube videos (which you're too ignorant to even form a valid opinion on)... now THAT is risky.

But I already have some knowledge and this makes me more critical.

No, you do not. You're critical because you're foolish.

Teachers probably don't like it when students ask too many questions.

Teachers like students who ask questions. But you're not a student. You're a foolish ignoramus.

 

[RTKDCMB]

Teachers probably don't like it when students ask too many questions.

As an instructor I like being asked question, I just don't much like being asked stupid questions.

 

[Flying Crane]

As an instructor I like being asked question, I just don't much like being asked stupid questions.

It is often said that there are no stupid questions.

But really, there are stupid questions.

 

[Juany118]

Okay, I'm going to hijack this thread in a possibly useful direction.

This is the problem with evaluating an art, style, or school solely from videos. Many videos are meant to teach or illustrate techniques. To do this, they normally show a very pure version of the technique, which requires using a compliant partner. To see the effects of a non-compliant partner on excellent technique, watch Olympic Judo matches; you can't see most of the technique because of the struggle, and what you can see is super-fast. This is actually what leads to many of the "TMAs suck" comments, when they are based on demonstrations, practice sessions using exercises for muscle memory, and teaching videos. None of those show what the techniques look like "in the wild", since the technique's street application will often be too messy and obscured by adjustments to the situation to be easily recognizable by anyone but an experienced student, and even that experienced student won't be able to see some of the finer points of the principles used. (Wow, long sentence. I'm exhausted.)

Exactly. I showed a video of honest to goodness Wing Chun fighting (gloves only) and someone was arguing "where's the Wing Chun. I explained it was there you just have to actually know WC to see it. It is like this with many MA's. There is a difference between learning in the Dojo and demonstration vs application in traditional Martial Arts.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Exactly. I showed a video of honest to goodness Wing Chun fighting (gloves only) and someone was arguing "where's the Wing Chun. I explained it was there you just have to actually know WC to see it. It is like this with many MA's. There is a difference between learning in the Dojo and demonstration vs application in traditional Martial Arts.

Yes. When I demonstrate a technique on a student to explain the movements, it's a gorgeous thing. All flowy and balanced. When I use a technique on a student who's trying to stay upright, it rarely looks nearly so nice. It still works, but things get less pretty.

 

[Kickboxer101]

Yes. When I demonstrate a technique on a student to explain the movements, it's a gorgeous thing. All flowy and balanced. When I use a technique on a student who's trying to stay upright, it rarely looks nearly so nice. It still works, but things get less pretty.

Same thing when you're hitting pads your combos look nice and sharp but when you spar they don't always look as good

 

[mograph]

Actually, I hate it when students don't ask questions. I just want them to be INFORMED questions. Yours are not.

If the questions are not informed, then an awareness of that, along with humility, might lead to an answer?

 

[drop bear]

Yes. When I demonstrate a technique on a student to explain the movements, it's a gorgeous thing. All flowy and balanced. When I use a technique on a student who's trying to stay upright, it rarely looks nearly so nice. It still works, but things get less pretty.

They are different techniques. Took me a while to learn that.

 

[stonewall1350]

So the technique does work if done fast enough? Cause in the video he wasn't doing it fast.

I was just thinking that if a technique only works if you're fast enough then doing this technique is risky cause if you're not fast enough you
have a problem.

@ stonewall

But I already have some knowledge and this makes me more critical. Teachers probably don't like it when students ask too many questions.

You have white belt knowledge. That means you don't have knowledge. It means you don't know the nuances. A strike that you THINK won't work because "technically," will 100% work in reality when the opponent doesn't see it coming because they put their position all wrong.

Take the hip toss. Works all the time. You've seen it work if you have watched judo or MMA. and when you do it? It is really awkward and doesn't feel like you will ever get it...

And then you do it for real for the first time. And then you feel WHY it works. Where it works. How it works.

Honestly dude. Instructors don't mind questions. What they don't like is being told that their dedicated and chosen art doesn't work by someone who has never even done an art before. Technical knowledge is nothing.

As mike Tyson said: everyone has a plan till they get hit.


Sent from my grapefruit using smoke signals.

 

[KangTsai]

You screwed up. Don't do this with other instructors and just go to the bloody free sessions they likely offer. Nobody would accept you kindly if all you did was challenge them from a point of lower authority.

 

[Azulx]

You screwed up. Don't do this with other instructors and just go to the bloody free sessions they likely offer. Nobody would accept you kindly if all you did was challenge them from a point of lower authority.

When I was a blue belt about a year ago, I had a white belt challenge me. I was brand new to our instructor program. My instructor asked me to work with this particular white belt. We were working on a wrist grab release. It worked when the opponent was doing the technique we were going against. Then he started with all the "what ifs." The defense was against someone grabbing the arm. While I was demonstrating the technique I asked him to be the student to help me. He grabbed my wrist as I performed the technique he jumped and spun. Then said "It didn't work." I looked at him and said yes because you jumped and spun. He took at as 'you are teaching me a useless technique.' The thing is if this was an actual self -defense situation, and my aggressor is in the air spinning, I would use a completely different technique. It was almost as stupid as if we were doing a front punch defense and he kicked me in the shin and said, yeah your block didn't work. No sheet! that isn't what we're working on. White Belt logic like that is counter productive and doesn't help anything.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

When I was a blue belt about a year ago, I had a white belt challenge me. I was brand new to our instructor program. My instructor asked me to work with this particular white belt. We were working on a wrist grab release. It worked when the opponent was doing the technique we were going against. Then he started with all the "what ifs." The defense was against someone grabbing the arm. While I was demonstrating the technique I asked him to be the student to help me. He grabbed my wrist as I performed the technique he jumped and spun. Then said "It didn't work." I looked at him and said yes because you jumped and spun. He took at as 'you are teaching me a useless technique.' The thing is if this was an actual self -defense situation, and my aggressor is in the air spinning, I would use a completely different technique. It was almost as stupid as if we were doing a front punch defense and he kicked me in the shin and said, yeah your block didn't work. No sheet! that isn't what we're working on. White Belt logic like that is counter productive and doesn't help anything.

These discussions happen in every school (at least, every school that has inquisitive students). I spend time explaiining exactly what you did: that techniques work when they are used appropriately. This is actually a core part of how I teach NGA - I work to help students understand why and how they would choose a specific technique/application, rather than just teaching them sequences of movements and waiting for them to develop that sense of which technique to choose.

 

[Deleted member 34973]

Why is this wasting his time? I only wanted to explain to him that I worry about learning techniques which don't work in real life
and I asked him what he thinks about this.

This is a normal question.

Anyway I wouldn't have gone to him anyway cause I found out that he likely sucks. But his reply still upsets and angers me.

This is almost discrimination against people which are a bit insecure and worry a lot.

If you lived close to me...I would train you.
+

 

[stonewall1350]

These discussions happen in every school (at least, every school that has inquisitive students). I spend time explaiining exactly what you did: that techniques work when they are used appropriately. This is actually a core part of how I teach NGA - I work to help students understand why and how they would choose a specific technique/application, rather than just teaching them sequences of movements and waiting for them to develop that sense of which technique to choose.

I've never really been a fan of the "if this then that" wording of many of the techniques we learn. I feel like it leads to this kind of silly confusion. The reality for most of us that even though it IS an "if this then that" type of move...that isn't how it feels. It isn't a step by step thing.

It is a flow thing. A feeling. It feels this way so the natural response should be along these lines or something else if it feels wrong. It is like water...it flows with the path of least resistance.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Gerry Seymour]

If you lived close to me...I would train you.
+

You might be willing, but you'd never get the chance, because he's clearly not going to show up anywhere to train.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I've never really been a fan of the "if this then that" wording of many of the techniques we learn. I feel like it leads to this kind of silly confusion. The reality for most of us that even though it IS an "if this then that" type of move...that isn't how it feels. It isn't a step by step thing.

It is a flow thing. A feeling. It feels this way so the natural response should be along these lines or something else if it feels wrong. It is like water...it flows with the path of least resistance.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It takes a very long time for most students to get that "flow" feeling. Until then, they need to understand when NOT to use a technique, so they can select from among the techniques that would fit the situation. It really is an "if this then not that" situation. For instance, if you block their punch and end up with your hand (and your body) on the outside of their arm, our Elbow Chop isn't a good choice. Unless they pull back while you have that contact, then the Elbow Chop often comes into play.

Once they have enough techniques and enough experience to form proper pattern recognition and automate it (this is what creates that "flow" feeling), they don't usually need the input of an instructor to make those connections and selections.

 

[Deleted member 34973]

You might be willing, but you'd never get the chance, because he's clearly not going to show up anywhere to train.

At least not until an instructor gets off of his high horse and answer his questions.

 

[Kickboxer101]

At least not until an instructor gets off of his high horse and answer his questions.

When a guy basically insults the instructors style by email saying things like I don't think this will work or I saw this video and this is actually better than what you do or I have knowledge in certain areas and believe this. I mean the guy can't even go to the guys school to talk to instructor face to face about his issues he hides behind a computer and does it and from what we've seen even if he did answer his questions perfectly this clown would still have some issue like oh but jackie chan did it better in rush hour

 

[Gerry Seymour]

At least not until an instructor gets off of his high horse and answer his questions.

He spends too much time asking vague and uninformed questions here, rather than going out and talking to instructors and watching classes. Most of us have lost patience with his endless list of excuses. I get folks coming in to ask questions about my program, and I simply answer them. If they have a poor attitude, I'm unlikely to accept them into the program, because that would be unfair to the other students.

 

[Deleted member 34973]

When a guy basically insults the instructors style by email saying things like I don't think this will work or I saw this video and this is actually better than what you do or I have knowledge in certain areas and believe this. I mean the guy can't even go to the guys school to talk to instructor face to face about his issues he hides behind a computer and does it and from what we've seen even if he did answer his questions perfectly this clown would still have some issue like oh but jackie chan did it better in rush hour

Really, as an instructor, who has the knowledge, you should swallow your pride. It is obvious that he is intetested but he keeps running into instructors who think what they teach is dacred knowledge. I run into that all the time and have ran into it all across the u.s.

He is looking for real arts...not sport. He doesnt want a competitive instructor. He wants a real one. Hence all of his questions.

I actually think its refreshing, to see someone be so picky instead of just going with the crowd and training in untested systems.

If it doesnt work in combat...to some people its useless and a waste of time and effort to even train.
He seems to be one of those people.

Researching and asking questions about every art, is the right thing to do.

A large percentage of instructors have never even been in a real altercation. Yet, they pretend that they have knowledge simply because they have trained for years.

Its just not the reality of actual experience. I dont care if you are an infinity dan ranking or grand pooba of whatever system. A controlled environment such as competition, is not helpful in actual self defense situations.

Now, this is from my personal experience and is my personal observation.

As soon as I hear a blackbelt or instructor say they have never been in an actual fight. I know training with them is useless, for me.

I know some people train for different reasons...and I believe you should train what your heart desires, even if it is competitive, but make sure you know what your instructors actual experience is, before training with them.

To choose the martial way of life is a huge step and any real instructor, would answer this guys instruction...with a smile on their face.