Pass it down the line

[drop bear]

Never heard of such an exercise. Sounds rather stupid and pointless.

We do circle of death with leg kicks. But you can go either direction.

If you are in the business of conditioning then you may want to do something other than stand there and be wailed on. Which can get a bit depressing.

Being slapped in the body is still probably the worst.

 

[Tez3]

I think you misunderstood her. If I'm reading her post right, she's not criticizing contact, or even hard contact, she's criticizing hitting someone harder and harder by each partner, without anyone saying why nor acknowledging the fact.

Absolutely spot on, thank you.

 

[Tez3]

Look, announcing, "Hit as hard as you want to get hit" is a call for restraint. I don't know how you are missing this. The teacher is still overlooking the operation, and enforcing restraint, but turning it up is not a bad thing. I find most beginners can't hit hard, anyway, so I allow them to lose control, all the time. In fact, I encourage women to lose control. It's OK, I am a trained punching bag.

Losing control is the quickest way to lose. You don't hit any harder at all, all you do is lose technique, your spatial awareness and any sense of danger. Teaching women to do this is not doing them any favours, quite the opposite.

 

[Touch Of Death]

Losing control is the quickest way to lose. You don't hit any harder at all, all you do is lose technique, your spatial awareness and any sense of danger. Teaching women to do this is not doing them any favours, quite the opposite.

In The States we don't want people holding back, when attacked. This sounds like one of them European values things, I hear about on the radio.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

Look, announcing, "Hit as hard as you want to get hit" is a call for restraint. I don't know how you are missing this.

"Hit as hard as you want to get hit" can work pretty well when two partners are working together. (Although there are some ways it sometimes goes wrong.)

Passing the impact around in a big circle is unlikely to have the same moderating effect. It's like the old game of Telephone, but with punches instead of words. What comes back to the person at the start of the line is probably not going to be what they initially put out.

 

[Touch Of Death]

"Hit as hard as you want to get hit" can work pretty well when two partners are working together. (Although there are some ways it sometimes goes wrong.)

Passing the impact around in a big circle is unlikely to have the same moderating effect. It's like the old game of Telephone, but with punches instead of words. What comes back to the person at the start of the line is probably not going to be what they initially put out.

It's the nature of the Beast, but it is overseen. LOL

 

[Tony Dismukes]

In The States we don't want people holding back, when attacked. This sounds like one of them European values things, I hear about on the radio.

I don't think it has anything to do with the U.S. vs Europe. It has to do with the fact that your training partners are not attackers who need to be put down for real.

When you want your students to practice hitting full force, you use heavy bags or pads or protective gear. If you're practicing striking techniques on a training partner who isn't thoroughly suited up in protective gear, then you have 3 possibilities:

1) You use control.
2) You injure your partner.
3) Your techniques are not effective enough to stop a real attacker.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Losing control is the quickest way to lose. You don't hit any harder at all, all you do is lose technique, your spatial awareness and any sense of danger. Teaching women to do this is not doing them any favours, quite the opposite.

I understand what you mean.

 

[Touch Of Death]

I don't think it has anything to do with the U.S. vs Europe. It has to do with the fact that your training partners are not attackers who need to be put down for real.

When you want your students to practice hitting full force, you use heavy bags or pads or protective gear. If you're practicing striking techniques on a training partner who isn't thoroughly suited up in protective gear, then you have 3 possibilities:

1) You use control.
2) You injure your partner.
3) Your techniques are not effective enough to stop a real attacker.

3 is usually the problem.

 

[Touch Of Death]

I understand what you mean.

That hitting hard makes you lose your sense of spatial awareness? I love it. It is new on me, but I love it.

 

[Tez3]

That hitting hard makes you lose your sense of spatial awareness? I love it. It is new on me, but I love it.

Are you having a bad day dear? No, losing control makes you lose your sense of spatial awareness. You, in fact, will hit less hard if you lose control, you will flail around, incensed at your opponent and miss all those vital signs that you are about to get thumped good and proper. You may well lose control of where you are and end up tripping up or falling over something (or someone), you may miss that your attacker has mates ( NEVER A GOOD THING)
No idea what you are going on about with the European thing, unless of course do we like to go in with surgical strikes, hard and to the purpose. Putting our strikes exactly where they will do the most damage as hard as good techniques makes them ie very hard. No messing about losing control but staying very much in control for maximum damage with minimum fuss and damage to ourselves?
Teach control, you know it makes sense.

 

[Touch Of Death]

Are you having a bad day dear? No, losing control makes you lose your sense of spatial awareness. You, in fact, will hit less hard if you lose control, you will flail around, incensed at your opponent and miss all those vital signs that you are about to get thumped good and proper. You may well lose control of where you are and end up tripping up or falling over something (or someone), you may miss that your attacker has mates ( NEVER A GOOD THING)
No idea what you are going on about with the European thing, unless of course do we like to go in with surgical strikes, hard and to the purpose. Putting our strikes exactly where they will do the most damage as hard as good techniques makes them ie very hard. No messing about losing control but staying very much in control for maximum damage with minimum fuss and damage to ourselves?
Teach control, you know it makes sense.

Well, in this context I was referring to an over regulation, or holding back. Beginners sometimes don't know how hit people. Or want to, for that matter. They have been taught their whole lives, not to hit; so, they do hesitation strikes.

 

[Touch Of Death]

We also call this, showing too much respect.

 

[Tez3]

Well, in this context I was referring to an over regulation, or holding back. Beginners sometimes don't know how hit people. Or want to, for that matter. They have been taught their whole lives, not to hit; so, they do hesitation strikes.

That's got nothing to do with control though.
If beginners knew how to hit people they wouldn't be beginners.
Teach people to hit properly, with technique and power. Teach them to hit where it will do the most damage, teach them to spar/fight correctly. Teach them to hit people, however teach them correctly. Losing control is as bad a habit to get into as not hitting properly, though people who lose control are easy to spar and pick off.

 

[elder999]

At 6:40-

 

[Tony Dismukes]

Well, in this context I was referring to an over regulation, or holding back. Beginners sometimes don't know how hit people. Or want to, for that matter. They have been taught their whole lives, not to hit; so, they do hesitation strikes.

It sort of depends on the beginner. Some are way too timid about hitting and they have to be encouraged to hit harder. Others come in like a bull in a china shop, swinging wildly and they need to learn how to calm down. Either way, they need to learn the physical and emotional self-control to do what is necessary in the moment - stay calm and be able to hit just as hard as is required in the moment.

 

[Touch Of Death]

That's got nothing to do with control though.
If beginners knew how to hit people they wouldn't be beginners.
Teach people to hit properly, with technique and power. Teach them to hit where it will do the most damage, teach them to spar/fight correctly. Teach them to hit people, however teach them correctly. Losing control is as bad a habit to get into as not hitting properly, though people who lose control are easy to spar and pick off.

Of course they are controlling themselves by not hitting hard, but when the control gets out of control, you ask them to lose some of it. LOL

 

[Touch Of Death]

It sort of depends on the beginner. Some are way too timid about hitting and they have to be encouraged to hit harder. Others come in like a bull in a china shop, swinging wildly and they need to learn how to calm down. Either way, they need to learn the physical and emotional self-control to do what is necessary in the moment - stay calm and be able to hit just as hard as is required in the moment.

Ok, normally in a martial arts sense, control refers to a regulation of force, distance, or direction. For instance, we want students to hit hard, but keep it off the face, and we hit them hard, but want to keep them so we blast them in the chest or shoulder, when the fail to get out of the way. This control word almost never means lose your mind, but it happens, I suppose, and if it's gonna happen it will happen in this sort of technique or sparing line. LOL But when I use the term I am not telling you to go bonkers.

 

[Tez3]

Of course they are controlling themselves by not hitting hard, but when the control gets out of control, you ask them to lose some of it. LOL[/QUOTE

You are talking about mind sets not control though. You cannot get them to lose control by letting them bash each other, it's going to end badly even if you don't see the damage physically. You have to change the way they think about things, teach them how to change their focus, none of which has anything thing to do with control in the context of sparring.

 

[JowGaWolf]

That hitting hard makes you lose your sense of spatial awareness? I love it. It is new on me, but I love it.

The hard hitting isn't the issue. It's the hitting without control that makes a person lose their sense of spatial awareness. Some people try to hit hard without out technique and focus which results in a weaker punch than if they hit hard with technique and focus. In my school we always try to tell the students "stop trying to hard and to focus on hitting with technique." When they focus on the technique they end up hitting harder and safer than they would if they were focused on hitting hard. For the instructors at my school we see it all the time and it's easy to tell when they are hitting with force and when they are hitting with technique. Usually when someone hits the pads without technique, we hear a loud noise from the impact and then we see them rubbing their wrist. When they hit with technique we hear a not so loud noise and then see the person holding the pads commenting that they are feeling the impact in their hands or telling the person to give them a second while they switch the pad to the hand that wasn't holding the pad.

When they try to hit hard, they aren't focused on hitting correctly which is a sign of lack of control. Trying to hit hard is like trying to force a punch the way that you think it should work instead of letting a punch take it's natural movement. When a punch is forced we prevent the natural mechanics of our body from working properly. In short if someone wants to learn punch harder then they should condition and learn to punch with technique.