Pass it down the line

[Kenpoguy123]

So this is a term used in kenpo don't know about other marital arts but it's basically the theory if you're in a technique line and one guy is hitting really hard the next guy hits the next person hard and they hit the next hard and so on until it keeps getting harder until the original person who started it gets hit hardest. Now in theory I do get the idea like if you're going to give it out you have to take it but really if there's some people who haven't actually done anything wrong theyre going to get hit around just because of the stupid actions of one person and then the whole training session turns into a massive brawl trying to hurt each other.

That's my opinion I'd like to hear other opinions

 

[Tez3]

I've never heard of it nor have I ever seen it. Not the sort of thing that should ever be done, sounds like some sort of nasty bullying. No reputable instructor would allow or condone it.

 

[Kenpoguy123]

I've never heard of it nor have I ever seen it. Not the sort of thing that should ever be done, sounds like some sort of nasty bullying. No reputable instructor would allow or condone it.

I don't agree with it but it's not bullying it's basically showing people to use control like if you don't want to get badly hit then don't hit other people. But I don't agree with it. My school doesn't use it but I have trained in kenpo schools where it does happen and I know it does happen in a lot of schools

 

[Tez3]

I don't agree with it but it's not bullying it's basically showing people to use control like if you don't want to get badly hit then don't hit other people. But I don't agree with it. My school doesn't use it but I have trained in kenpo schools where it does happen and I know it does happen in a lot of schools

It's not teaching anything like that at all, it's a very stupid form of bullying, sorry but it is. To allow people to hit each other as hard as they want without control isn't good martial arts. It's also teaching that you follow others blindly and stupidly.
If you are sparring full contact and are told only use 80%, 50% etc that is learning control not some silly schoolboy game.

 

[Kenpoguy123]

It's not teaching anything like that at all, it's a very stupid form of bullying, sorry but it is. To allow people to hit each other as hard as they want without control isn't good martial arts. It's also teaching that you follow others blindly and stupidly.
If you are sparring full contact and are told only use 80%, 50% etc that is learning control not some silly schoolboy game.

What you saying sorry to me for I just said I don't agree with it and I don't train like that I was simply asking what people think of it

 

[Touch Of Death]

What you saying sorry to me for I just said I don't agree with it and I don't train like that I was simply asking what people think of it

If you invited people to hit you as hard as they could, people would die and stuff. I think you mean people start to lose control, but the whole thing is a controlled event.

 

[Touch Of Death]

I've never heard of it nor have I ever seen it. Not the sort of thing that should ever be done, sounds like some sort of nasty bullying. No reputable instructor would allow or condone it.

Oh, for God's sake! It isn't all that bad. If you know the tech, you know what's coming. I have done this form of training; however, I understand that other people consider contact to be bullying. That is funny, actually. LOL

 

[JowGaWolf]

This is this the first time I've heard this. In my school we don't encourage hitting hard, we are highly technique focused instructors so we care more about technique than power. Our theory is that once you get the technique correct, power becomes easier and requires less effort so there's really no need to blast punches all the time.

To teach control, I have students punch things that are harder than their fist with the goal of only touching the object with the knuckle when punching: Brick wall, metal door frame, or tree. This forces them to concentrate on technique, I know when they abandon control because I can hear a loud thud or a sound of pain from hitting too hard. This way it's only the student who is hitting hard that is injured. When they can throw fast punches at the hard object without busting up their hands then they have learned control. After students do this training, I'll bring out the pads and have them hit the pads with force using technique. This way they can get some conditioning from striking the pad with more force.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

Never heard of such an exercise. Sounds rather stupid and pointless.

 

[JowGaWolf]

if you're going to give it out you have to take it but really if there's some people who haven't actually done anything wrong theyre going to get hit around just because of the stupid actions of one person and then the whole training session turns into a massive brawl trying to hurt each other.

This would be bad for me because it puts me in the mindset of "Payback." If I hit someone too hard and had to get hit back like that then I'll nail that last person who hit me the hardest.

I would prefer to just be placed with someone who is at my level so that I can get conditioned and when I'm not with someone at my level then it should be a given that I don't hit them as if they have been training and conditioning for 20 years.

 

[JR 137]

Oh, for God's sake! It isn't all that bad. If you know the tech, you know what's coming. I have done this form of training; however, I understand that other people consider contact to be bullying. That is funny, actually. LOL

I think you misunderstood her. If I'm reading her post right, she's not criticizing contact, or even hard contact, she's criticizing hitting someone harder and harder by each partner, without anyone saying why nor acknowledging the fact.

 

[JR 137]

Acting like this is really a reflection on the CI IMO. The CI's job is primarily to maintain order, not to dispense justice.

I saw my former teacher handle a few people who got carried away during sparring. He'd politely politely tell them to ease up on the level of contact, remind them to pay attention to who they were sparring, emphasize technique over strength, etc. It was most often people new to sparring that had to be told. I saw him get upset once when a student didn't listen. My CI lined up and sparred against the offender, hitting him harder than he was hitting. He ended the round by saying 'see how it feels? Do it again and you'll need to find a new dojo.' Problem solved. The student was genuinely a good guy; had he not been, he'd have been told to leave sooner.

My current CI handles it a bit better when the level of contact goes up. He says "I don't mind people going hard, actually I encourage it from time to time. But remember who you're sparring with. Hit as hard as you're willing to get hit. If your partner isn't hitting hard, that means you need to ease up and only hit as hard as they're hitting you."

My current dojo is pretty small, and we're pretty tight knit. We know who likes to hit hard and who doesn't. The only time there's an issue (for lack of a better word) is when someone you're used to hitting hard isn't their usual self for whatever reason.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Never done this. What I have done is, at my old place if we're fighting or drilling and someone hits you with a higher level of contact then they were supposed to, the person who was hit then has to hit them back using the same level of power. Useful for two reasons: It's supposed to prevent hard feelings since any damage taken has been returned (not that there would have been hard feelings either way) and it helps teach control to beginners, especially during drills.
A couple of times I had to do it for the first reason against someone who already knew control, but expected me to jump back, so was following through with a spin, or some other accident. I felt bad hitting them since they weren't learning anything from it, but they would feel bad until they got hit back.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Never done this. What I have done is, at my old place if we're fighting or drilling and someone hits you with a higher level of contact then they were supposed to, the person who was hit then has to hit them back using the same level of power. Useful for two reasons: It's supposed to prevent hard feelings since any damage taken has been returned (not that there would have been hard feelings either way) and it helps teach control to beginners, especially during drills.
A couple of times I had to do it for the first reason against someone who already knew control, but expected me to jump back, so was following through with a spin, or some other accident. I felt bad hitting them since they weren't learning anything from it, but they would feel bad until they got hit back.

The other instructor accidently hit me in the lip when explaining a technique. He felt bad about it and asked if I want to hit him back. I said only if I can kick him in the face. He replied "only if he could block" and I told him he could only block after the second kick. Accidents happen and sometimes punches and kicks are harder than the should be. It's only a serious concern when it becomes a habit and when the student is selfishly thinking only about himself or herself and not the safety of other students. By the way the other instructor knows his time is coming and hadn't been asking me to spar with him lately. Lol

 

[Touch Of Death]

Never heard of such an exercise. Sounds rather stupid and pointless.

Look, announcing, "Hit as hard as you want to get hit" is a call for restraint. I don't know how you are missing this. The teacher is still overlooking the operation, and enforcing restraint, but turning it up is not a bad thing. I find most beginners can't hit hard, anyway, so I allow them to lose control, all the time. In fact, I encourage women to lose control. It's OK, I am a trained punching bag.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

By the way the other instructor knows his time is coming and hadn't been asking me to spar with him lately. Lol

Thats why we do it right away No pointless torturing people. While I would enjoy it, not sure my sensei would be happy about that behavior...

 

[Aiki Lee]

Look, announcing, "Hit as hard as you want to get hit" is a call for restraint. I don't know how you are missing this. The teacher is still overlooking the operation, and enforcing restraint, but turning it up is not a bad thing. I find most beginners can't hit hard, anyway, so I allow them to lose control, all the time. In fact, I encourage women to lose control. It's OK, I am a trained punching bag.

Not if that message is not clear. I had a teacher who did this once when I was a young teen. I interpreted what he said as some sort of acknowledgement that he was going to train with me seriously (as opposed to treating me like a little kid), I did not realize I was hitting too hard and was being inappropriate. Instead of telling me this, the instructor kicked me across the room.

It breeds misunderstanding, fear, and contempt. Not a good learning environment.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Thats why we do it right away No pointless torturing people. While I would enjoy it, not sure my sensei would be happy about that behavior...

lol.. I'm not torturing him, I like to think of it as suspense.

 

[Touch Of Death]

Not if that message is not clear. I had a teacher who did this once when I was a young teen. I interpreted what he said as some sort of acknowledgement that he was going to train with me seriously (as opposed to treating me like a little kid), I did not realize I was hitting too hard and was being inappropriate. Instead of telling me this, the instructor kicked me across the room.

It breeds misunderstanding, fear, and contempt. Not a good learning environment.

I agree that if the instructor isn't qualified, and clear, you are going to get confusion.

 

[yak sao]

This? (at :40)