Ninjutsu on Discovery Channel

[TimoS]

I agree with sojobow that a ninja should ESCAPE UNDETECTED AFTER THE KILL. Has Steven Hayes ever killed anyone and escaped after the kill? I doubt it. Frank Dux, on the other hand, has indeed done this, and it is documented in his autobiography The Secret Man. Dux stalked his prey, a rogue operative known as Fish, all over the world, finally killing him with his bare hands and escaping undetected.

I find it amusing that apparently the only source of this alleged killing is Frank Dux himself. What I find even more hilarious is that there are people willing to believe anything that is written.

 

[DuckofDeath]

The Secret Man also describes Dux's Kumite nemesis, Chong Li, as a 6'4" 268 lb. Korean (a lot bigger than Bolo Yeung who played the part in Bloodsport) who was reputed to have killed several men in previous Kumite competitions. But I'll bet you probably don't believe that either.

 

[TimoS]

But I'll bet you probably don't believe that either.

Of course I believe! I believe that it is mentioned in the book, but what I don't believe is the story itself

 

[Jay Bell]

Uh...Duck? Before waving the "Dux Rules" banner...you might want to do some reading on the man. Anything by M.C. Busman will do just fine..

 

[MJS]

I agree with sojobow that a ninja should ESCAPE UNDETECTED AFTER THE KILL. Has Steven Hayes ever killed anyone and escaped after the kill? I doubt it. Frank Dux, on the other hand, has indeed done this, and it is documented in his autobiography The Secret Man. Dux stalked his prey, a rogue operative known as Fish, all over the world, finally killing him with his bare hands and escaping undetected.

Considering the reputation Dux has, you honestly would take his word over someone like Hayes??? Come on man.

Why was Hayes selected to participate in the special rather than Dux? Although Dux isn't in the best of health these days, he certainly could have been consulted and interviewed, and one of his black belts--David Silverman, for example--could have done the "get to the target" exercise.

Why was Hayes selected rather than Dux? Ummmmmmm...let me see...maybe because Hayes is a more reputable source of Ninjutsu!!!

Mike

 

[MJS]

The Secret Man also describes Dux's Kumite nemesis, Chong Li, as a 6'4" 268 lb. Korean (a lot bigger than Bolo Yeung who played the part in Bloodsport) who was reputed to have killed several men in previous Kumite competitions. But I'll bet you probably don't believe that either.

I agree with Jay Bell here. Maybe you should do some research on Ninjutsu, Dux, and Hayes before believing everything you hear about Dux. If you're basing your choice on whos better over a movie, again I stress to do a little research.

Mike

 

[DuckofDeath]

Uh...Duck? Before waving the "Dux Rules" banner...you might want to do some reading on the man. Anything by M.C. Busman will do just fine..

Oh, you mean like that 100+ page thread on Dux started by Busman on E-Budo.com?

 

[Cruentus]

Oh, you mean like that 100+ page thread on Dux started by Busman on E-Budo.com?

Duck,

Do you have any evidence outside of Dux to support some of his claims?

Just curious,

PAUL

 

[DuckofDeath]

If you're basing your choice on whos better over a movie, again I stress to do a little research.

Do you take me for some kind of naif? I'm quite aware that Hollywood always takes liberties in films. The real Kumite, for example, was not held in Hong Kong as shown in Bloodsport, but rather in the Bahamas.

 

[DuckofDeath]

Do you have any evidence outside of Dux to support some of his claims?

I think the real evidence against Dux would be things within Dux's own works that don't support his claims.

 

[Dale Seago]

I think the real evidence against Dux would be things within Dux's own works that don't support his claims.

Hardly. Paranoid schizophrenics have the most tightly-constructed internal logic in their worldviews that can be found anywhere.

 

[Jay Bell]

Do you take me for some kind of naif? I'm quite aware that Hollywood always takes liberties in films. The real Kumite, for example, was not held in Hong Kong as shown in Bloodsport, but rather in the Bahamas.

If it thinks like a naif and acts like a naif, chances are...

The real Kumite, for example, never happened. Dux's bad usage of Japanese got him caught from the get-go.

 

[heretic888]

You mean like his use of the "Japanese" art of dim mak??

*laughs*

 

[Cruentus]

You mean like his use of the "Japanese" art of dim mak??

*laughs*

Ha! shows what you know! Next thing you'll try to tell me is that chow mien isn't traditionally Japanese!

 

[DuckofDeath]

You mean like his use of the "Japanese" art of dim mak??

Where does Dux ever say that dim mak is Japanese? Most people know the "death touch" by its Chinese name. I'm puzzled by all the grief Dux and his Dux Ryu Ninjitsu students take because they practice dim mak. One irreverent poster on the now defunct Frank Dux Forum accused Dux and his students of being practitioners of dum fuk!

 

[Shogun]

I just have to say this....
I just watched UFC 2 again, and saw Robert Bussey's student (Mr. Morris) get murdered by a Kickboxer. a kickboxer who, even though is tough, practiced TKD and other Korean arts. So as I'm concerned, Bussey made Ninjutsu look like a joke to america, UFC, and TKD stylists.
Thanks, BOB!

 

[DuckofDeath]

Paranoid schizophrenics have the most tightly-constructed internal logic in their worldviews that can be found anywhere.

An astute observation, and one with which I completely concur. But if there were a serious error of fact embedded within that tightly-constructed internal logic, something that the paranoid schizophrenic couldn't go back and rationalize, wouldn't that decisively vitiate his claims?

Suppose for example that I claim to have gone on a secret government mission during which I had to scale a rock face that could only be scaled by the best climbers in the world. No, I don't have any documentation of that because I was alone and it was secret mission; but there's no contradictory evidence either, e.g., no one has been able to place me at another locale when the rock-scaling part of the mission was going on. But what if an expert rock climber found something in my account that laymen had overlooked, something that only an expert rock climber would recognize as something that wouldn't work or couldn't be done. Wouldn't that damage my credibility more than my lack of documentation?

 

[Cruentus]

An astute observation, and one with which I completely concur. But if there were a serious error of fact embedded within that tightly-constructed internal logic, something that the paranoid schizophrenic couldn't go back and rationalize, wouldn't that decisively vitiate his claims?

Suppose for example that I claim to have gone on a secret government mission during which I had to scale a rock face that could only be scaled by the best climbers in the world. No, I don't have any documentation of that because I was alone and it was secret mission; but there's no contradictory evidence either, e.g., no one has been able to place me at another locale when the rock-scaling part of the mission was going on. But what if an expert rock climber found something in my account that laymen had overlooked, something that only an expert rock climber would recognize as something that wouldn't work or couldn't be done. Wouldn't that damage my credibility more than my lack of documentation?

Yes...so you are saying that Dux damages his own credability through his own misinformation. I agree.

Question is...you seem to support him. Why, if this is the case?

 

[DuckofDeath]

Scott Morris was robbed!

 

[Cruentus]

Scott Morris was robbed!

huh?