Most Dangerous (as in Useless) Self-Defense Technique Taught?

Discussion in 'General Self Defense' started by wingchun100, Jan 20, 2017.

  1. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    In the counter he showed, the other arm is only used to counter punches. Since the off-side arm of the "attacker" is being used to control an arm, there's no need to control it - it is controlling itself. I'm still not sure the control in that method prevents the counter from the video, since the arms aren't activating anything - they are simply attaching to the opponent. When we look at the throw, getting your center low enough to give you leverage is what will prevent that counter. The arm control is preventing other counters.
     
  2. Paul_D

    Paul_D Master Black Belt

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    So after he you got the guy on the ground, you jumped in the air, landed on his kidneys, smashed his face into the floor, then broke his neck, then neck broke his nose, then finally while he his lying helpless on the ground you kicked him in the head, all of which lead to his eventual (if not immediate) death, as the title of the technique implies?
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2017
  3. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    Bulldog choke.


    Its a real thing.
     
  4. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    One of those weird differences between a training headlock and a proper headlock.

    If you drag the person forwards they have nowhere to go but face down into the deck,
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2017
  5. Headhunter

    Headhunter Senior Master

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    No but I used the exact same takedown pinned him with my legs and put him in the neck crank position to pin him. Those techniques are designed to give you options if you need them. It's no different to doing a jab, cross, hook, uppercut on the pads. If I knock the guy out with the cross does that mean there's no point training the combination
     
  6. Paul_D

    Paul_D Master Black Belt

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    Hate to ruin your theory, but then you didn't do the leap of death.
     
  7. Headhunter

    Headhunter Senior Master

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    I used more than half of the move and used the exact principles and theories of it which I wouldn't have done if I hadnt learnt the techique so yes I did and I managed to defend myself because of that techique and if I wanted to break his neck I could've done so the techique works
     
  8. Paul_D

    Paul_D Master Black Belt

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    I never said it didn't work, I said it was useless.

    It is useless as you can never use it (in full) unless of course you like long periods of incarceration. You did not do the leap, landing on the kidneys nor the did you do the neck break. Therefore you did not do the leap of death. You took the parts of the technique that wouldn't land you in jail, as any sensible person would, if the leap and the death cannot be used (unless as mentioned you like prison) then it is useless.

    Useless and ineffective are not the samething.
     
  9. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

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    The "3 points control" can only disable the arm. It's the spine bending that disable the counters. In order to do so, the "elbow joint" of your head lock should point straight down to the ground. In that clip, since he did not "crash his opponent's body structure", his opponent's left waist wrapping arm can still pull him back and down.

    IMO, if

    - your head lock cannot bend your opponent's spine side way, and
    - your opponent's free arm wraps around your waist,

    you have to

    - change your head lock into over hook and apply pressure on his elbow joint,
    - use your right leg to "spring" his left leg back into a bow-arrow stance.

    If you want to use head lock,

    - not only you need to develop a strong head lock,
    - you also need to train many other skills such as over hook (head lock and over hook are twin brothers), elbow crack, leg spring, leg lift, leg twist, inner edge sweep, shin bite, front cut, outer twist, ...
     
  10. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

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    Worst than that, it can be his chest touches the ground but his head is straight up.
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2017
  11. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

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    In wrestling, there is a major "contradiction".

    An effective

    1. throw assumes you have 100% control on your opponent's leading arm.
    2. counter for throw assumes your leading arm is free.

    If 1 is true then 2 is false. Also if 2 is true then 1 is false.

    It's true that all technique has counters. But IMO, a 100% correct technique should not have counters. The reason is simple. If your technique can be countered, your technique may still have hole in some area.
     
  12. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    I don't believe any technique is completely un-counterable. There is a point in every technique, however, where the time for counters has passed. The two situations you posit as opposites may simply be different points in the same timeline. If I go to throw you, you can counter me up until the moment where I have complete control of the necessary part of you (be it arm, leg, center, whatever). I don't think the leading arm is often a sufficient control point for preventing counters to many throws, since a shift of structure or center can be counter to many. This is in line with what you said about bending the spine (which destroys structure and prevents center shift).
     
  13. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

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    Agree! Sometime, it's too later to counter (such as both of your feet are off the ground).

     
  14. Tony Dismukes

    Tony Dismukes MT Moderator Staff Member

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    Getting back to the original question in this thread...

    It took me a little while to track this down, but this may be the worst "technique" I have ever seen seriously presented as self-defense instruction:

     
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  15. Paul_D

    Paul_D Master Black Belt

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    "Expert" yeah, of course he is :wtf:
     
  16. senseiblackbelt

    senseiblackbelt Green Belt

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    Never knew people still used Internet Explorer. LOL.
     
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  17. Xue Sheng

    Xue Sheng All weight is underside

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    Still big in enterprise, but Google is gaining ground
     
  18. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    Wow. Yeah, that....um...
     
  19. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    It is on par with almost everything anti grappling

     
  20. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    As with most of what I've seen labeled anti-grappling, it would work against the people who watch MMA and think they are learning how to fight.123
     

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