Most bad techniques are bad because you're bad at them

Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Talk' started by skribs, Jul 26, 2019.

  1. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    Where as if you did that with chokes.you would get a much better result.

    I guess some techniques are just better than others.
     
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  2. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

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    Both. If you know that your opponent will only use joint lock on you, since you don't have to worry about his kick and punch, you can interrupt his power generation during the initial stage.
     
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  3. skribs

    skribs Senior Master

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    It is there, you've just rejected it. You're purposefully ignoring large amounts of reality to make your point.
     
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  4. skribs

    skribs Senior Master

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    He doesn't believe in video evidence. In the eye-poke discussion, he saw a bunch of guys get poked in the eyes and stop fighting, and said there was no evidence of eye pokes stopping a fight.
     
  5. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    It means they work sometimes. Just like one guy making those kicks work.
     
  6. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    Yeah, I see videos of them often trying to use locks where it's not really a good idea. I'd mostly expect them to work with passive resistance (not "fighting back", just making it hard to cuff them) - active resistance presents too small a window for them to be reliable. Maybe if someone practices them a ton, they'd be able to get them in more often, but I've only known a few cops who trained locks that much, and even they didn't rely on them in that kind of chaos.
     
  7. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    They do work against stronger people, but only in a VERY limited window, in my experience. Not usually worth the fiddling at that point.
     
  8. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    One guy who can make those kicks work consistently.

    Vs what is again random chance. Like dowsing.
     
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  9. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    Ok. So same deal with GPseymor. It has to be better than random chance.

    I am purposely ignoring a whole bunch of variables that put the results out. And ignoring evidence that we don't really know what the situation is.

    So a random policeman wristlocking a random crook has too many unknowns to make a conclusion.
     
  10. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    So as an explanation. Here is evidence that when I roll dice I roll 6s



    So therefore my method of rolling dice is valid.

    This is the same as a random cop putting a random crook in a wristlock. And saying their technique works.
     
  11. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    Any videos of dowsing working against a resisting offender? Or are you maybe just drawing a false equivalency?
     
  12. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    No, that's evidence that rolling those dice can produce 6's. Which is the same as a wristlock working.

    See, you seem to think I (or anyone else) is saying wristlocks work a lot of the time. I haven't said that, and haven't seen anyone else say it. What I have pointed out is that they've been used successfully on quite a number of occasions. Meaning the wristlocks actually worked. You ramble on about "random chance", as if those suspects might otherwise have been randomly cuffed without any intervention. Which is pure bullocks. And you actually know it is, which makes it also dishonest.
     
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  13. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    Dowsing doesn't work in a double blind test.

    But anecdotally it does work. There are videos of it working on you tube.

    The equivalence is that the method you use to prove wrist locks work also proves dowsing works.

    And the OP is using bad science to make his case.
     
  14. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    Suspects have been randomly cuffed with no intervention.

    This happens all the time. Police just tell you to put your hands behind your back. And people do.
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2019
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  15. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    You talk about dogma from time to time. When you start on something like this, you are easily the most dogmatic person I've talked to about martial arts.
     
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  16. Anarax

    Anarax 2nd Black Belt

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    Great post, your analysis is insightful. I want to add something to your comment below.

    The training methods we use will shape the way we'll react in an altercation. A practitioner that only trains forms and 1-steps and doesn't pressure test(sparring, live drills, etc) will not have be as effective in an altercation than the one who spars. Sparring doesn't have to be 100% to achieve combat effectiveness, but you need a non-compliant partner to hone your combative skills.

    The debate of "right" and "wrong" techniques seems endless and tedious. However, economy of motion and kinesology are dynamics that go beyond opinions and preferences. For example, a kicking defense technique in a style I studied was dropping back into a deep dragon stance while parring the kick down with you hands going back. That technique requires a tremendous amount of time, energy and movement to pull off, it also puts the defender in a postilion where he couldn't counter-attack. Was he wrong to do so? No. Is the technique wrong? No, but there are other kick defense techniques that require less movement, will inflict trauma to your opponent and will set you up for a counter-attack. Essentially, you can do more with less.
     
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  17. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    You don't understand dogma.

    This is a police cuffing training video where suspects just do what they are told.

     
  18. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    Conner McGregor cuffed without any intervention.



    14:39
     
  19. skribs

    skribs Senior Master

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    What would you have the police do with a compliant suspect? Choke them out and break their arm?
     
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  20. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    It is not the point.

    We don't know if the crooks being wrist locked are really resisting.

    Some people don't.

    So police wrist lock crooks is not good evidence.
     

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