Mc dojo

Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Talk' started by hammer, May 31, 2005.

  1. hammer

    hammer Green Belt

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2004
    Messages:
    143
    Likes Received:
    9
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Fellow Martial Artist, we hear the term of a "Mc Dojo" quite often, Can we collectively define the term "Mc Dojo"??

    Appreciate your input.

    This thread is not intended to identify Mc Dojo's simply to define the term from your prospective and the associated characteristic’s of the great "Mc Dojo"

    Looking forward to your responses

    Cheers

    Hammer
     
  2. Rob Broad

    Rob Broad Master of Arts

    • Martial Talk Alumni
    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2003
    Messages:
    1,526
    Likes Received:
    21
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Sarnia , Ontario, Canada
    Just read the post "Can I get fries with that" and you will have a pretty clear definition of a McDojo
     
  3. hammer

    hammer Green Belt

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2004
    Messages:
    143
    Likes Received:
    9
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Hey Rob, while true, I understand what you are referring to, yet dose that really define the term Mc dojo, or to identifying the characteristic’s of the great Mc Dojo.


    OK

    Dose having a chain of schools classify you as a Mc dojo?

    Dose trying to up sell Club patches with a uniform make you a Mc dojo?

    I was hopping for specifics, what the broader martial arts community defines and characterizes as a Mc dojo.

    Cheers
     
  4. Brother John

    Brother John Senior Master

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2002
    Messages:
    2,530
    Likes Received:
    58
    Trophy Points:
    108
    Location:
    Wichita Kansas, USA
    I think that the largest common denominator would have to be LOW standards and high ego.

    Plain and simple.

    your Brother
    John
     
  5. terryl965

    terryl965 <center><font size="2"><B>Martial Talk Ultimate<BR

    • Martial Talk Alumni
    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2004
    Messages:
    41,259
    Likes Received:
    335
    Trophy Points:
    193
    Location:
    Grand Prairie Texas
    Mc dojo to me means selling your Art and intigity for money, like making people advance as soon as possible because your on a contract and need to fleece the poor sap for another grand so you can go to Vegas and bet on 32 red. Also when we see people on Black Belt club or top team with flashy uniforms with all the bells and whistle's with little training when parent use them for babysitting instead of training.
     
  6. Andrew Green

    Andrew Green Grandmaster

    • Martial Talk Alumni
    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2004
    Messages:
    8,628
    Likes Received:
    446
    Trophy Points:
    208
    Location:
    Winnipeg MB
    Does things differently then my brain washing says they should be done.

    That's basically it.

    One persons "Perfect Dojo" is anothers "McDojo".

    For some reason many people believe that all martial arts schools should be the same, and teach the same stuff, the same way and pay the bills the same way.

    Some people want a after school program for there kids, now give a little tkd class in there and that will appeal to some more then daycare. Which makes sense. Would you rather send your kid to a daycare where they are doing things they'd ratehr not do, or send them to one that will give them a TKD class every day?

    But for many people that right there is a sure sign of a McDojo.

    I'd say its a sign of good business. There was a need for the service, the business provides it and makes money.

    Same as someone that likes artsy subtitled low budget movies might use "mainstream" as a derogatory way to describe Big budget movies, people use "McDojo" to describe schools that cater to what the public wants, instead of some idealistic view of what they should want.

    There is a need for a good number of approaches to martial arts training, and in varrying degrees.
     
  7. shane23ss

    shane23ss Blue Belt

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2004
    Messages:
    267
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    TN
    I agree with you here John. I think a "McDojo" could also be defined as those that are "fly by night". The type of schools that open for a while, promote a bunch of people then close and open somewhere else. The sad thing is that I know a few Kenpo schools that have done this.
     
  8. Gemini

    Gemini Senior Master

    • Martial Talk Alumni
    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2005
    Messages:
    3,546
    Likes Received:
    36
    Trophy Points:
    158
    Location:
    The Desert
    I think this sums it up in a nutshell. There are certainly flags for a McDojo, but I think this is the one common attribute of all of them.
     
  9. dscott

    dscott Guest

    I think that a McDojo shouldn't be defined as one that has a chain like McDonalds but one that does it strictly for the money and fame. Some deciding factors to tell a McDojo are:

    Kids with black belts
    Mail order belts
    Instructor with no credentials
     
  10. hammer

    hammer Green Belt

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2004
    Messages:
    143
    Likes Received:
    9
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Gent's ,
    Thank you for your contributions to this thread, While we are all formiliar with the term Mc dojo opinions vary as to what is a Mc dojo, I have my own veiw's as to what is a Mc dojo and will post them later. Yet im sure they might change as this thread goes along.

    Thankyou:asian:
     
  11. Rob Broad

    Rob Broad Master of Arts

    • Martial Talk Alumni
    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2003
    Messages:
    1,526
    Likes Received:
    21
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Sarnia , Ontario, Canada
    A McDojo is a place that sell ranks just to keep the student happy, they are belt mills producing high numbers of inferior ranks. Or worse they give belts away for things that have no relation to skill such as high grades in school.

    While there is nothing wrong with a school owner making money at teaching especially if they offer high quality instruction, but when the love of the Dollar out weighs the love of the art you have just entered a Mc Dojo.
     
  12. hammer

    hammer Green Belt

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2004
    Messages:
    143
    Likes Received:
    9
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Thats cool , I like that

    Cheers
     
  13. Andrew Green

    Andrew Green Grandmaster

    • Martial Talk Alumni
    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2004
    Messages:
    8,628
    Likes Received:
    446
    Trophy Points:
    208
    Location:
    Winnipeg MB
    Thats business. If you can't pay the bills you can't teach, no matter how high the quality of instruction might be. If adding blcak belt clubs, patches, teams, young blackbelts, etc are required to pay the bills and keep the school open, then that is what is required to keep the doors open...
     
    • Like Like x 1
  14. bdparsons

    bdparsons Black Belt

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2002
    Messages:
    522
    Likes Received:
    14
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Raleigh, NC, USA
    I would say when the quantity in the pocket is a higher priority than the quality on the mats you've got yourself a McDojo.

    Respects,
    Bill Parsons
    Triangle Kenpo Institute
     
  15. bdparsons

    bdparsons Black Belt

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2002
    Messages:
    522
    Likes Received:
    14
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Raleigh, NC, USA
    Remember this is only true if the school is a commercial enterprise. I can teach anytime and anywhere. The question is do I have any expenses associated with that teaching.

    Respects,
    Bill Parsons
    Triangle Kenpo Institute
     
  16. FearlessFreep

    FearlessFreep Senior Master

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2004
    Messages:
    3,088
    Likes Received:
    96
    Trophy Points:
    108
    Location:
    Phoenix, Arizona
    I think Andrew has a point in that a lot of ways we think we know how MA should be taught and if someone teaches it 'differently' then it's easy to label them as a McDojo

    I think the ony realy criteria should be intergrity. If you teach TKD as a sport for sport competition, and you are honest about that, that's fine. If yo only teach sport TKD and you claim it is good for self-defense, then that is dishonest.

    If a school has a purpose, and that purpose is articulated honestly to the students and held to in the training, then there's really nothing to complain about. However, if the purpose is dishonestly represented or given short shrift in training, that's when you have a complaint.
     
  17. Andrew Green

    Andrew Green Grandmaster

    • Martial Talk Alumni
    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2004
    Messages:
    8,628
    Likes Received:
    446
    Trophy Points:
    208
    Location:
    Winnipeg MB
    Yup, that you can. Right now I train in a park. Durring the winter we train out of a rented hall. I have also run a commercial school. So I've had a go at a few different methods ;)

    A school can also charge very little / nothing and still be a bad school. Or it can charge lots, have all the fancy stuff, and still be a grea school.

    For instructors that do this full-time as there only job they need to make a living at it. Same as someone working in a big Corporation. They want a stable income, a good income, and regular raises. Same as a person in any other job.

    To do that you got to meet the needs of the clients. Thats the way business works. If these schools are making money and doing this stuff it is because that is what their customers WANT them to do.

    So I guess I just have a hard time seeing why a business owner that listens to the customers and gives them what they want is a bad thing? If people didn't want these black belt clubs, patches, lots of belts, big classes, frequent promotions, child black belts, etc. These schools wouldn't have any customers. This is what most people want in martial arts training.

    For those of us that want something different, well there is that too. But it seems kind of silly to blame all our problems on the people that do what the "mainstream" wants to pay for...
     
  18. Andrew Green

    Andrew Green Grandmaster

    • Martial Talk Alumni
    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2004
    Messages:
    8,628
    Likes Received:
    446
    Trophy Points:
    208
    Location:
    Winnipeg MB
    Bingo!

    As long as someone is honest about what they do, what's the problem?

    "Exagerations" are to be expected though, just as in any other industry... But flat out lies are bad in any business.
     
  19. hammer

    hammer Green Belt

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2004
    Messages:
    143
    Likes Received:
    9
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Andrew, I value your input and agree with what you are saying with the view to have a school that is commerically viable. Mate not to word pick? Do you think that there is a difference between a student of the martial arts, and a customer or client??


    Cheers[​IMG]
     
  20. chris...

    chris... Guest

    I have some training but i've got no credentials, no club, no patches, no belts and I train people for free123
     

Share This Page