Learning Wing Chun

Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Talk' started by Midnight-shadow, Jun 22, 2016.

  1. Midnight-shadow

    Midnight-shadow 3rd Black Belt

    Joined:
    May 29, 2016
    Messages:
    928
    Likes Received:
    242
    Trophy Points:
    58
    One of the things I've noticed in my training is that I am far too tense and hard in my movements, and need to relax more, especially during sparring. Since learning about the apparent connection between Wing Chun and my own style (White Crane), I'm wondering if I should start learning Wing Chun in order to develop the relaxed softness required in my own style. The problem is there are no Wing Chun schools available in my area that I can go to, which if I did want to do it, I would have to learn online.

    Is it worth trying to do this or should I just focus on White Crane and developing the softness required through that?
     
  2. Anuka

    Anuka Yellow Belt

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2015
    Messages:
    31
    Likes Received:
    14
    Trophy Points:
    23
    I would focus on white crane. I tried online wing chun before going to a legitimate Sifu, and I developed a bunch of bad habits that I had to unlearn.
     
  3. Flying Crane

    Flying Crane Sr. Grandmaster

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2005
    Messages:
    12,983
    Likes Received:
    2,546
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Location:
    San Francisco
    If you want to learn white crane, then train white crane. Do not learn wing chun and then try to make your white crane like wing chun. Work on your white crane for its own merits. And I've got a feeling he relaxation will come, if you are diligent.

    And the wing chun that I learned was not so relaxed. It was actually done with a good bit of tension. I get the feeling that may not be typical, but that was my experience. So even there it depends.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  4. Flying Crane

    Flying Crane Sr. Grandmaster

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2005
    Messages:
    12,983
    Likes Received:
    2,546
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Location:
    San Francisco
    And for the gods' sake, do not do it online. That is NOT the way to learn this stuff.
     
    • Agree Agree x 5
  5. FocusedSoul

    FocusedSoul White Belt

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2016
    Messages:
    6
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Location:
    Derbyshire, UK
    I agree with other members here, online learning of martial arts is a mind full of poor techniques; there is no substitute for a great teacher - none!
    I had issues with being tense as Shotokan is a strong form of Karate, however I have practised relaxed movements and power when required and it is much better; your speed and stamina in sparring will be far greater too!
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  6. Midnight-shadow

    Midnight-shadow 3rd Black Belt

    Joined:
    May 29, 2016
    Messages:
    928
    Likes Received:
    242
    Trophy Points:
    58
    Thanks for the advice everyone. I'll just stick with the White Crane for now. I just am a little nervous after hearing that my Instructor's Instructor's Instructor had to spend 3 years learning the first form of White Crane, only to go to another master and be told he had been doing it all wrong, and that it was too hard, and so spent another 3 years on it to get it right.
     
  7. Tames D

    Tames D RECKLESS

    • Martial Talk Alumni
    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2006
    Messages:
    5,131
    Likes Received:
    662
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    I hate to say this... but wtf? 6 years to get a form right?
     
  8. Tames D

    Tames D RECKLESS

    • Martial Talk Alumni
    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2006
    Messages:
    5,131
    Likes Received:
    662
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    This says a lot about on line training. Either you were not following the program correctly, or the program is crap, produced by "experts" that don't know what they are doing.
    Who was the Wing Chun Sifu that produced the online course?
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2016
  9. Phobius

    Phobius Black Belt

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2015
    Messages:
    692
    Likes Received:
    218
    Trophy Points:
    98
    Believing you can teach yourself Wing Chun using online sources are like fooling yourself.

    This is not an art where study techniques and you know the art. It is too concept based and concepts you have to learn by heart, seeing why you must do things a certain way. Sense in your body how a correct move would be and have a partner that shows the weakness in your moves.

    Two moves, both looking identical but with a different alignment in muscles can be world's apart. How would you know you are doing it correctly?

    Imagine this, all the times you have been corrected by your teacher. Now think if you never ever would get that correction. Same with all the times you felt by doing a partner drill, how something should be done different. Now imagine this will never occur for you.

    This is worse than thinking you know how to fight without sparring or fighting.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  10. Midnight-shadow

    Midnight-shadow 3rd Black Belt

    Joined:
    May 29, 2016
    Messages:
    928
    Likes Received:
    242
    Trophy Points:
    58
    Apparently so. I don't know how true that story is, but the point still stands. The guy had been too hard in this actions and therefore didn't have the softness required for the art in question. I imagine it's similar to a person who practiced Hung Gar for years and then suddenly switched to Taijiquan. All the hardness and strength required for Hung Gar is completely the opposite of what you need for Taijuquan, so you might as well start again from scratch.

    The problem I have is that since I practice Tiger-crane combination, it requires both hard and soft elements (tiger is hard, crane is soft). I can do the tiger elements just fine, it's the crane elements and the softness that I am struggling with.
     
  11. Tames D

    Tames D RECKLESS

    • Martial Talk Alumni
    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2006
    Messages:
    5,131
    Likes Received:
    662
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    Something that pops up in my mind a lot... You want your stances to be perfect. You want your forms to be perfect. You want your Sifu to to tell you how wonderful you are. We all get that. I've been there. You've been there. But the reality is... there is no perfection. But let me tell you... when the **** is hitting the fan, and your health and life are on the line... that perfect neutral bow is not gonna save your ***. Trust me, there will be no perfect Neutral Bow.
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2016
  12. Midnight-shadow

    Midnight-shadow 3rd Black Belt

    Joined:
    May 29, 2016
    Messages:
    928
    Likes Received:
    242
    Trophy Points:
    58
    Are you directing that at me, or just saying it in general? For me, I'm not looking for perfection, I just want to realise my full potential and be the best Martial Artist I can be.
     
  13. Tames D

    Tames D RECKLESS

    • Martial Talk Alumni
    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2006
    Messages:
    5,131
    Likes Received:
    662
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    No Sir. Not directed at you.
     
  14. Anuka

    Anuka Yellow Belt

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2015
    Messages:
    31
    Likes Received:
    14
    Trophy Points:
    23
    I don't remember the name, this was quite a while ago. Without having an instructor to correct my mistakes I just had structure problems.
     
  15. Flying Crane

    Flying Crane Sr. Grandmaster

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2005
    Messages:
    12,983
    Likes Received:
    2,546
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Location:
    San Francisco
    The real issue is, the medium of online/video as primary instruction is simply inappropriate for the proper transmission of this kind of information and skills. It just doesn't work well, no matter how good the sifu is, or how well designed he program is or how hard and diligently the student practices. There is just no two ways around it.
     
  16. Flying Crane

    Flying Crane Sr. Grandmaster

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2005
    Messages:
    12,983
    Likes Received:
    2,546
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Location:
    San Francisco
    Well, also keep in mind that different folks in different generations, may have had a different understanding of this stuff. There often is not simply one "correct" way it is done, with all others being "wrong" 100%, once lineage has split and there is no single guiding authority.

    That being said, you do it the best you have learned, until you find someone who can teach you to do better. And that sounds like what happened with your Great-Sigung, and it does not mean that what he had been doing prior was absolutely wrong, it just means he found someone who could teach him better. But, what one man did a couple generations ago may have little bearing on how your training unfolds today.

    I went thru it myself, had a sifu who later took me to his sifu, and I became that man's student, at which point the quality of my training improved dramatically.

    Just keep working on the white crane on its own merits, that's the best way to develop your skills in white crane.

    And keep in mind, a form is not a commodity. It's not something you do for "perfection" in the sense of it being performance art. Rather, it is a tool used to help you develop your skills. As you practice your form, if you are going about it correctly (meaning, your approach to the training is correct, not necessarily that your execution of every part of the form is necessarily perfect), then you are gradually developing your skills. Forms are training tools. With them, you build your skills.

    When you go to buy a house, it is the house that matters, how well it was built. It is not how shiny the carpenters tools might be.

    Your skills are your house. Your forms are just tools in your toolkit.123
     

Share This Page