kubotan dual

Discussion in 'General Weapons Discussion' started by Porong, Jul 1, 2019.

  1. Bill Mattocks

    Bill Mattocks Sr. Grandmaster

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    There's no legal gray area for heck sake.

    There's no list of things which are and are not weapons in the eyes of the law. A baseball bat isn't a weapon until it's used as one, then it is.

    And bottom line, for like the billionth time, no one giving learned advice here is going to pay your fines or serve your prison time because they gave you stupid advice about the legality of carrying assault hamsters or whatever.

    Figure it out.
     
  2. pdg

    pdg Senior Master

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    Actually, there is a list of things considered only useful as weapons here that 'nobody' is allowed to carry around under any circumstance, and a list of things that have a secondary use as weapons which are allowed to be carried 'with good reason' (certain tools etc.)

    Pretty much anything can be used as a weapon - and will be dealt with as such in a legal setting (e.g. baseball bat, credit card, tin of beans).

    The grey area with tactical torches is that it is currently (at my last check) undecided whether they are on the list of weapons or not. If they make the list, they're effectively banned for carry, if they don't then they'll be in same category as a tin of beans...
     
  3. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    In at least some places in the US, there's some of the same, as far as the "only useful as weapons" category. I don't think there's a defined list anywhere of the "with good reason" type of tools, though.
     
  4. pdg

    pdg Senior Master

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    Oh, and then there are also different lists for classes of weapons...

    There are those where possession at all is a criminal offence.

    There are those that are allowed to be possessed under licence, without which any possession is a criminal offence.

    There are those that you can legally own, but carrying off your own property is a criminal offence (some of these can be carried 'with good reason', such as taking a bo to an ma class etc.)

    Anything else would likely come under 'weapon of opportunity' if used as such.


    So, if tactical torches are deemed to be primarily a (disguised) weapon, then public possession would be a criminal offence.
     
  5. pdg

    pdg Senior Master

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    I'll concede that point - it's really open to situational discretion.

    Although, it could be said that 'the list' of such items consists of "anything pointy, bludgeony or in any way scary".

    Most days I have what is effectively a large karambit in my car - but because of my job it's a weeding tool. If I leave it in my car, by itself, while out for a jolly I'm really asking for a little trip to the station and an offer of legal representation...
     
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  6. jks9199

    jks9199 Administrator Staff Member

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    Based on a state appellate ruling, in Virginia... things are weapons. The code section describing concealed weapons ends with the phrase "weapon of like kind" or something like that. I'm being lazy and not looking it up for the exact words -- but the state Court of Appeals found that a Balisong style butterfly folding knife is NOT a weapon, after examining it in the light of several defitions of weapon. It didn't matter what the person intended to do... just that he had the potential.
     
  7. pdg

    pdg Senior Master

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    That's interesting - a balisong is classified as an offensive weapon in the UK and has been illegal to carry since (iirc) the late eighties / early nineties.

    In/around '95 a guy was arrested carrying one a few miles from my house and attempted to show good reason by saying he might need it to do something like cut his shoe laces if they became knotted :/

    Even if he found a better good reason, the prosecution would still have gone ahead due to it's classification.

    Unfortunately, I didn't post it on YouTube so I'm probably lying ;)
     
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  8. pdg

    pdg Senior Master

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    Just to clarify this point in particular.

    My 'learned advice' is that if you're in the UK, either be damn sure what you'd like to carry isn't on any of the lists (or isn't 'of like kind' to anything on them), or don't carry anything.

    Legally, I'd say - if in doubt, don't take it out...
     
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  9. dvcochran

    dvcochran Senior Master

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    L.E.D.'s are amazing. How durable to you think it will be? My little 2-cell AAA mag light is tough but I have had to replace the on/off button twice from regular use and banging/bouncing around in the back of my truck. Never used it as a force multiplier and always wondered how a small would hold up.
    I used to carry a 6-cell C Mag light for a night stick. Replaced the bulb no telling how many times. Always carried spared in my vehicle.
     
  10. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    Not sure. Energizer generally do a decent product. For durability I have found the three batteries in a little cage hold up better than end to end.

    (The one in that photo is two end to end 123s but we will see how it goes.)

    As far as a baton torch I have found led lenzer is by far the best although it is a 3D.
     
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  11. dvcochran

    dvcochran Senior Master

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    Switched the Mag to an LED bulb and it made a huge difference.
     
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  12. Bill Mattocks

    Bill Mattocks Sr. Grandmaster

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    UK is different. It's like, the moon or something. I'm talking about the good old USA.
     
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  13. Bill Mattocks

    Bill Mattocks Sr. Grandmaster

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    I sincerely doubt the court said that, but let's say it did. My point is still pretty basic and easy to grasp. If some knucklehead reads this, decides that balisongs are A-OK in VA because someone said so on the interwebs and gets his *** in a crack because of it, you're not going to prison for him, nor paying his fines or legal bills. People have to do their own research or pay the 'stupid tax', which can be quite high at times. And no, I'm not calling you stupid. I'm saying anyone who decides to do something sketchy based on something someone else said was OK is going to have a tough road in life.
     
  14. Bill Mattocks

    Bill Mattocks Sr. Grandmaster

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    That's pure BS.
     
  15. Dirty Dog

    Dirty Dog MT Senior Moderator Staff Member

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    It's going to vary enormously from one light to another.
    If you want one that will handle abuse, consider one designed for diving, not one labeled tactical. They're not cheap, but if they can handle being bounced off the wall of a cave 500 feet down, I'm betting they can handle being bounced off a skull at a mere one atmosphere.
    I carry several of THESE as backup lights when I'm diving. One with the video (very wide, no hot spot) head and two with the spot head. You're going to have to try hard to break one.
     
  16. rondave72

    rondave72 White Belt

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    I’d like to butt in to say that as fancy as flashlights can get, I’ve had a lot of luck with maglite’s AA versions over the years and they make a 275 lumen version now.


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  17. Buka

    Buka Sr. Grandmaster

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    Assault hamsters....I gotta' get me some of them. And if I can get them to wear little green helmets...
     
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  18. rondave72

    rondave72 White Belt

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    They can be vicious and if you don’t feed them they can turn on you.


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  19. Dirty Dog

    Dirty Dog MT Senior Moderator Staff Member

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    Maglites are inexpensive. They're also cheap.
    The backup lights that I linked are only 1000 lumen.
     
  20. rondave72

    rondave72 White Belt

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    I’ve gotten decades out of them.


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