Krav-Maga??

Discussion in 'General Self Defense' started by Andr, Oct 4, 2018.

  1. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    If we talk reality, stronger muscles are an advantage in any style. Women tend to have weaker muscles (though not in all areas), so will (on average) hit less hard, etc. But any style that works when taught well (and KM is one) will work for a woman when taught/learned well.
     
  2. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    I don't think that strict definition is at all necessary. BJJ, for instance, has thrived mostly on NOT trying to put borders around the art. It has naturally graduated (in most places) more and more to ground work and few strikes, but that's not a limitation imposed by the nature of the art. In many BJJ gyms, if something works, it's BJJ. Same thing with MMA gyms (to some extent regardless of the base styles they teach, or whether they teach base styles, at all).
     
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  3. jobo

    jobo Grandmaster

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    well that's most probably a truism, but is very difficult to verify with actual data, trained athletes, in this case swimmers, women have about 60% of the strength of their Male counter parts, with the general population is a lot more difficult to come up with a hard and fast figure,

    men, most men have the capacity to be stronger, but if they dont train and the woman is sporty or works in an industry that has lifting r strength involved then the advantage may be very small or non existent.

    8ve met some unfeasibly strong women in my time, girly girls that could seriously embaress a lot males. when I was a teenager, I ended up in a pushing match with my younger sister, she more than held her own as she had spent 6 months messing about with her boy friends bullworker. I immediately purchased a bull worker, no one wants to be beaten up by their little sister

    but the same general strength rule applies, the stronger you are, the lower the % of people who are substantially stronger than you
     
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  4. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    I did say "on average", Jobo.
     
  5. jobo

    jobo Grandmaster

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    I know, but what " average" is this of which you speak, you can certainly say that the " average Male has the capacity to be stronger than the average female, it's a big jump to say that they are. 7nless you are only comparing like with like on age and physical fitness

    certainly with a women who has trained say Km, for a year, then theres a good chance she can go head to head with the " average Male "

    the who point of ma, is to lift you out of the average
     
  6. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    It's common usage, Jobo. You know that.

    Agreed. And she might (depending how she trained, and her personal potential for strength) be stronger than the average male. But she'd no longer be "average", herself.

    Yes. But what was YOUR point?
     
  7. jobo

    jobo Grandmaster

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    it may be common usage to make claims based on an average that you dont know, or have no idea what methodology was used to arrive at it. but claims made from a made up average are suspect and strength is primarily a skill, that's only loosely tied to muscle size

    my point is that your statement that a female km,cant hit as hard as an average Male is completely unsuportable. not least because strength is only part of the eqaution
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2019
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  8. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    Actually, you need to go back and re-read what I said, apparently. I never said a female KM can't hit as hard as an average male. You are doing your usual of rearranging things to a meaning you want to argue against.
     
  9. jobo

    jobo Grandmaster

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    well we were discussing female km, so it was a fair assumption that what you were referring to, but ok, what makes you believe that an average female cant strike as hard as an average Male. you will need to state your data points for what makes someone average to do this.
     
  10. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    That's not even close to a "fair assumption". Re-read the post, this time with the intention of actually responding to what it says, rather than what you want it to say (so you can argue).

    In answer to your more reasonable question: mass (women on average weigh less) and strength (both anecdotal and measured evidence shows women have less strength in several key muscle groups). A very simple Google search produced this as the first result:Women in Combat: Physical Differences May Mean Uphill Battle
     
  11. jobo

    jobo Grandmaster

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    but women who do combat arnt average,by your own claim and neither are the men by the same measure, so that not dealing with the claim that an average Male strikes harder than an average female ?

    a quick Google says the average American males between 30 and 40 is 5 ,9 and29.6 BMI a 39, inch waist.so a fraction of 1% under being obese, so it's fairly clear they are no up on the e exercise thing. so where is the data that this short fat unfit man punches harder than an average female ?

    or if your using a different average, pray tell what it is ?
     
  12. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    You're just looking for something to argue about. You have neither a point, nor anything to add. I think we're done here.
     
  13. jobo

    jobo Grandmaster

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    my point remains the same as it was a the beginning, that putting the words on average in a sentence is meaningless unless your going to define average in that context, and more expressly, an " average female that does a physical job, of which there are many, could well be stronger than an average" Male who does an office job of which there are also many. more than enough of both for them to be considered average everyday people, unless as above you have some particular data set you wish to impose on it to prove your point
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2019
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  14. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    On average is a misconception in that context.

    images.jpg
     
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  15. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    Not really. "On average" is a common usage which doesn't actually require an individual be average for the larger population - every subset (including "people who do KM") has an average, as well. The question was about "women" (the generic group, as opposed to any individual women), so we can discuss overall points, without needing to resort to outliers.
     
  16. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    Trained fighters are outliers. How does average factor in?
     
  17. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    There are averages within any population. That's how averages work.
     
  18. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    But they don't apply to the people in question.
     
  19. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    Yeah, they do. There's an "average" for people who start KM. There's an "average" for people who do 40 years of KM. Every population has an average, and it's going to be a derivative of the average of the larger population. So, if on average, women have less upper body strength than men, then elite women will (on average) have less upper body strength than elite men. It translates.
     
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  20. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    I see but for krav why are we not setting up elite female athletes vs average Male? Which includes elite males anyway.

    I don't care how soccer moms perform. They don't factor in.123
     

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