JRE - Striking and BJJ

[pdg]

Where's the dude in between getting guillotined?

He's imaginary.

If he was there, it'd save the hassle of faking the punch.

 

[pdg]

See the gif I posted.

That gif in no way demonstrates that knockout by standing guillotine is faster than knockout by head kick.

 

[pdg]

The first guy looked like he was doing non-contact point sparring.

Second guy in the TKD dobok fought like he deserved every inch of that white belt - maybe a yellow belt would fit.

Third guy, totally got dominated - that white belt suited him even more.

I didn't see a single well executed kick throughout the video, but they did alright for beginners.

Poor example though.

 

[Hanzou]

That gif in no way demonstrates that knockout by standing guillotine is faster than knockout by head kick.

No, it demonstrates how quickly you can go unconscious from even a poorly executed guillotine. And unlike the head kick, once its locked in that person is going to sleep in a very short amount of time.

 

[Hanzou]

The first guy looked like he was doing non-contact point sparring.

Second guy in the TKD dobok fought like he deserved every inch of that white belt - maybe a yellow belt would fit.

Third guy, totally got dominated - that white belt suited him even more.

I didn't see a single well executed kick throughout the video, but they did alright for beginners.

Poor example though.

You can push this to higher levels and, the results will be exactly the same unless it's a full contact karate variant like kyokushin.

 

[pdg]

No, it demonstrates how quickly you can go unconscious from even a poorly executed guillotine. And unlike the head kick, once its locked in that person is going to sleep in a very short amount of time.

5-6 seconds (your timeframe) against a fraction of a second?

How do maths work where you are?

And, the guillotine still relies on actually getting the position in the first place (which is far more complex than a kick) and then actually getting it locked in.

So maths again - half a second to execute the kick, plus falling down time, about a second.

I'll allow everything falling into place for the guillotine and the opponent offering no resistance to getting it locked in, so let's say 1-2 seconds to apply, plus 5-6 seconds to pass out. That's 6-8 seconds.

In my version of maths, 1 is less than 6-8.

 

[pdg]

You can push this to higher levels and, the results will be exactly the same unless it's a full contact karate variant like kyokushin.

The results will only be the same if they continue to apply in the same fashion and the comparison is the same.

In that video, the boxing guy far outclassed the others. He wasn't exactly great, but they were worse.

Take that to a higher level and put a very good boxer against a mediocre 'karate' guy - yes, the boxer will very likely dominate utterly.

Go even higher and put an excellent boxer against a very good 'karateka' - again, the boxer will probably be on top.

Match the skill levels (or do the unthinkable and actually swap skill levels, which I've never seen done - probably because it'd make the boxer look bad) and the outcome will be different.

 

[drop bear]

Far less time than it would take for you to knock someone out with a behind the ear head kick.

At four to five punches a second?

 

[Headhunter]

You can push this to higher levels and, the results will be exactly the same unless it's a full contact karate variant like kyokushin.

Seriously you're embarrassing yourself now

 

[Hanzou]

5-6 seconds (your timeframe) against a fraction of a second?

How do maths work where you are?

And, the guillotine still relies on actually getting the position in the first place (which is far more complex than a kick) and then actually getting it locked in.

So maths again - half a second to execute the kick, plus falling down time, about a second.

I'll allow everything falling into place for the guillotine and the opponent offering no resistance to getting it locked in, so let's say 1-2 seconds to apply, plus 5-6 seconds to pass out. That's 6-8 seconds.

In my version of maths, 1 is less than 6-8.

The choke was established from the opening of the assailant's attack. Are we now changing the situation with the second person throwing a perfect fantasy head kick at the exact same time as their friend rushing in for a tackle?

The results will only be the same if they continue to apply in the same fashion and the comparison is the same.

In that video, the boxing guy far outclassed the others. He wasn't exactly great, but they were worse.

Take that to a higher level and put a very good boxer against a mediocre 'karate' guy - yes, the boxer will very likely dominate utterly.

Go even higher and put an excellent boxer against a very good 'karateka' - again, the boxer will probably be on top.

Match the skill levels (or do the unthinkable and actually swap skill levels, which I've never seen done - probably because it'd make the boxer look bad) and the outcome will be different.

Boxers tend to outclass karateka on a fairly regular basis.

 

[Hanzou]

At four to five punches a second?

What?

Seriously you're embarrassing yourself now

If you think the typical karate student is up to par with a standard boxing student, you're the one embarrassing yourself.

 

[jobo]

What?



If you think the typical karate student is up to par with a standard boxing student, you're the one embarrassing yourself.

Show me a typical karate students then ? You must have one in mind to make this comparison ?

 

[Headhunter]

What?



If you think the typical karate student is up to par with a standard boxing student, you're the one embarrassing yourself.

You really are making yourself look silly.....a boxer can beat a karate guy and karate guy can beat a boxer. It all depends on a number of different factors including pure luck. There's only one place where a boxer is guaranteed to always against a karate guy...and that's a boxing ring anywhere else it's impossible to know

 

[pdg]

The choke was established from the opening of the assailant's attack. Are we now changing the situation with the second person throwing a perfect fantasy head kick at the exact same time as their friend rushing in for a tackle?

The situation is based on the posted videos being one on one.

So let's say we've agreed to fight, the preamble is out of the way and it's time.

I'm going to be doing everything I can to maintain my preferred range of 4-6 feet.

Exactly how are you establishing a standing guillotine on me? Magic?

So let's now say you try to shoot for a dlt from that range - if I can't sidestep or get over the top and introducing you to my knee is such fantasy, then I guess you're in a great position for me to guillotine in return. But because it takes so damn long to have any effect and you might actually have a knife within range of your two completely unrestricted arms it's my very last option.

 

[Hanzou]

Show me a typical karate students then ? You must have one in mind to make this comparison ?

 

[jobo]

So you have estabished that he, they are typical how ?

 

[oftheherd1]

I can do a kick to an opponent's leg hard enough to bend their knee backwards in well under a second, and I don't have to lay on the floor (in all that glass) to do it.

Go on, say I'm wrong.

You're wrong because even professional fighters are unable to accomplish that feat on a regular basis.

I've tried to stay out of this thread because it seems to me like arguing how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. But the above quote just baffles me. What art that teaches kicks does not teach and require its practitioners to kick with speed and strength and always try to kick faster and harder? And teach places to kick that will take out a leg (granted, probably at higher belts)?

To remove any out about "regular basis," perhaps you should define that. If you say a professional fighter cannot do that regularly when he wants to in different fights (different because he shouldn't have to do that many times in the same fight), he needs practice and may not be ready for professional fighting. If you say he cannot do that regularly in the same fight, again, he needs practice and may not be ready for professional fighting.

If course it is a bit of a moot point since in professional fighting there are rules to prevent injuries that would prevent opponents from continuing professional fighting. I'm not sure where we got off on this thread being about only professional fighting. Regardless, move your angels over. Mine can beat yours.

 

[Headhunter]

So you've purposefully gone and looked for the worst videos you can find....nice reasoning..

 

[Hanzou]

The situation is based on the posted videos being one on one.

So let's say we've agreed to fight, the preamble is out of the way and it's time.

I'm going to be doing everything I can to maintain my preferred range of 4-6 feet.

Exactly how are you establishing a standing guillotine on me? Magic?

So let's now say you try to shoot for a dlt from that range - if I can't sidestep or get over the top and introducing you to my knee is such fantasy, then I guess you're in a great position for me to guillotine in return. But because it takes so damn long to have any effect and you might actually have a knife within range of your two completely unrestricted arms it's my very last option.

How about you go to a Bjj or MMA gym with a recording device and challenge them to take you down. If you can avoid their takedowns via what you're saying here, you'll be a very wealthy man.

But we both know you're not going to do that dont we?

 

[jobo]

How about you go to a Bjj or MMA gym with a recording device and challenge them to take you down. If you can avoid their takedowns via what you're saying here, you'll be a very wealthy man.

But we both know you're not going to do that dont we?

Ive seen lots a bjj take downs FAIL, so its far from impossible to not get taken down