JRE - Striking and BJJ

[Buka]

Ah wow didn't know that Buka! I reckon you'd love kata ... and ahhh doing kata at sunrise on those lovely beaches in Hawaii..... that's spinetingling stuff....

Simon, I just did a Kata at my buddy's Tang Soo Do dojo a couple months ago. I have no idea which Kata, but I enjoyed the heck out of it.

As for doing it on the beach, probably. But I bet it would be even better atop the mountain.

 

[_Simon_]

Simon, I just did a Kata at my buddy's Tang Soo Do dojo a couple months ago. I have no idea which Kata, but I enjoyed the heck out of it.

As for doing it on the beach, probably. But I bet it would be even better atop the mountain.

YES!

That's awesome, a mountain would be epic too! Yep, kata excites me greatly XD

 

[oftheherd1]

When I studied TKD, we did kata, usually by what our belt was. I realized I was learning blocks, kicks and punches, and the kata were a chance to learn blocks, punches and kicks and keep practicing them, but didn't think too much beyond that at the time. It wasn't until much later when I would think back that I realized there was more to learn from the kata. Still, in the Hapkido I studied, I never missed kata. The two arts are very different in many ways, and there approach to learning is different.

 

[ShotoNoob]

there is a point that grappling can go too far down a rabbit hole. i watched a EBI event the other day and the two champs spent 15 minutes trying to get a toe lock. grappling wise it was high level but self defense wise it was ridiculous.

Whole heartedly agree...

The way the striking arts are conventionally practiced in this country, the BJJ practitioner's have a very strong suit. They address specifically a void that has come about in many karate practices for all the reasons blogged about.

OTOH, this whole mantra of grappling as self defense carries with it an even bigger risk of harm than striking. Once the aggressor is in close... so many of your vulnerable points, senses can come under direct, unfettered attack.

Grappling for self defense is a two-sided coin. Grapplers like to say they take away the strikers capability in large measure, and certainly ones' mobility is compromised. Yet grapplers are thus directly exposed to like disadvantages & dangers.

 

[ShotoNoob]

What do you think of this?

If there is one universal truth in martial arts, it's that those 'rock-paper-scissors' masters are drawn like magnets (Or is it lemmings?) to You tube.

EDIT: Friggin' guy talks like a car salesmen. Chuck Liddell bought a car from me... you should too. No brainier.

 

[Hanzou]

Whole heartedly agree...

The way the striking arts are conventionally practiced in this country, the BJJ practitioner's have a very strong suit. They address specifically a void that has come about in many karate practices for all the reasons blogged about.

OTOH, this whole mantra of grappling as self defense carries with it an even bigger risk of harm than striking. Once the aggressor is in close... so many of your vulnerable points, senses can come under direct, unfettered attack.

Grappling for self defense is a two-sided coin. Grapplers like to say they take away the strikers capability in large measure, and certainly ones' mobility is compromised. Yet grapplers are thus directly exposed to like disadvantages & dangers.

Again, the flaw in Headhunter's post is that he's comparing two elite grapplers in a grappling match to a possible elite grappler against a person who possibly has little to no grappling experience. In that situation the elite grappler has a huge advantage, and it will take far less than 15 minutes to subdue or cripple the person they're dealing with.

The advantage that grappling has always had over striking is that you can go full force with grappling where in striking you have to always compromise full power to keep your training partners healthy. So while grapplers can go full blast and even take it to the point of near break or choke-out to the point of mastery, strikers can never fully practice breaking bones or dealing significant damage with strikes.

More to the OP, if you look at the old Gracie in Action stuff and the first UFCs, you'll see plenty of striking in Bjj. Typically strikes are deployed after they've achieved the dominant position. The good old "Ground and Pound" being a prime example.

 

[ShotoNoob]

Again, the flaw in Headhunter's post is that he's comparing two elite grapplers in a grappling match to a possible elite grappler against a person who possibly has little to no grappling experience. In that situation the elite grappler has a huge advantage, and it will take far less than 15 minutes to subdue or cripple the person they're dealing with.

I like to watch MMA. And this is so often the situation as you point out. MMA claims to be mixed martial arts. Yet, the striking training wouldn't pass muster @ the local boxing outfit down the road from me. The owner knows boxing science & has trained both amateur and pro competitors, over his lifespan of course.

I mentioned training MMA to him, and he has zero interest in it.

The advantage that grappling has always had over striking is that you can go full force with grappling where in striking you have to always compromise full power to keep your training partners healthy. So while grapplers can go full blast and even take it to the point of near break or choke-out to the point of mastery, strikers can never fully practice breaking bones or dealing significant damage with strikes.

You see some of these incredible knock outs in MMA. And I fear if some of these competitors are going to get up. Hospitalizations are routine. Post-fight medical suspensions, there's often a laundry list of fighters on it. Striking arts in MMA definitely a double-edged sword.

More to the OP, if you look at the old Gracie in Action stuff and the first UFCs, you'll see plenty of striking in Bjj. Typically strikes are deployed after they've achieved the dominant position. The good old "Ground and Pound" being a prime example.

Certainly a preferred route by the new UFC LW Champion himself. And he's continued his string of being undefeated. A wrestler base art!

I love to review the Gracie exposition videos. Often they prep the entry with the jab. This was a common tactic of Ronda Rousey. Gracie propaganda aside... IMO the design of BJJ was very well thought out for mixed martial arts.

Edit: Another benefit of the Gracies: Because of their artistic contribution to MMA, I often follow their fights. And their marketing bluster, too. They can have the same troubles competing as anybody. But when they're on... they're equally successful.

 

[TMA17]

I've caved and accepted the fact that most of the time, grappling is better. However, you still need fundamental striking ability. There were some instances in BJJ where I felt striking could have negated some of what my partner was trying to do. I've always disliked grappling but highly respected it. Boxing was my favorite combat sport and I was a huge fan of Mike Tyson and Bruce Lee growing up. When the Gracies came around and my friends brought over the first few UFC fights on VHS to my house while in high school, I was shocked. It was a glaring fact that grappling can easily neutralize striking.

I'm loving Judo so far. In a street confrontation, Judo and Wrestling/BJJ followed by some boxing are a lethal combination to know for self defense. If you can dictate where the fight goes and strike, you have a good majority of what you need covered IMO.

 

[drop bear]

Whole heartedly agree...

The way the striking arts are conventionally practiced in this country, the BJJ practitioner's have a very strong suit. They address specifically a void that has come about in many karate practices for all the reasons blogged about.

OTOH, this whole mantra of grappling as self defense carries with it an even bigger risk of harm than striking. Once the aggressor is in close... so many of your vulnerable points, senses can come under direct, unfettered attack.

Grappling for self defense is a two-sided coin. Grapplers like to say they take away the strikers capability in large measure, and certainly ones' mobility is compromised. Yet grapplers are thus directly exposed to like disadvantages & dangers.

Less risk as the range for the most effective strikes happen at arms reach. As you get closer strikes just don't hit as hard.

 

[ShotoNoob]

Less risk as the range for the most effective strikes happen at arms reach. As you get closer strikes just don't hit as hard.

Would you mind explaining this position?

 

[drop bear]

Would you mind explaining this position?

The best striking range is about at arms reach because my strikes have a little room to wind up.

As someone gets closer strikes become less powerful.

 

[ShotoNoob]

The best striking range is about at arms reach because my strikes have a little room to wind up.

As someone gets closer strikes become less powerful.

Okay. For one, I was thinking elbows close in. Where elbows are not used, such as formal kumite competition see video.

2018 The 61st JKA All Japan Karate Championship Tournament Series!!
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budojapan
Published on Jul 9, 2018

We are @ 22 seconds in. I can't put my finger on the name of the female Japanese defender in the exchange; what she demonstrates is the body movement / reset then counter strike. Effective karate striking is not a static process. Boxer's too have a whole series of adjusting technicals.

Later in the video with the big guys, we will see shorter 'cocked' strikes. With boxers, this does often rob power into the strike because the distance is very short in a tie up, clinch. And the body mechanics may be thrown off by being taken out of stance. The traditional karate chambered punching, however, comes to rely on internal strength and not necessarily depend upon the long ROM chambered strikes we see typically represented in kata, kihon, and so forth.