JD is using professor title for master!!!

[Red Blade]

I went to the links that Susumu Kodai posted and have also been doing some of my own research. I've found some interesting things. if you go to this link http://web.archive.org/web/20001027042323/www.modernarnis.com/news.htm
you will see the follow about the 2000 Michigan summer camp written by McManus:

Sunday was an early morning as the Black Belts finished taping counter to counter and trapping drills. Gaby Roloff was given the honor of conducting the test in which 38 people participated including 20 testing for Black Belt or higher. Their performance and intensity were incredible and energizing. Following the test Tim Hartman was promoted to the rank of 6th Degree Black Belt making him the highest ranking practitioner in the United States.

Maybe it's me but it seems that Datu Hartman was and still is the the highest ranking practitioner in the United States. Seeing that the promotions that followed were only to 5th degree. After reading this I noticed that the summer camp listing chronological order pushing it to the bottom of the page.

I was reading a black belt mag article on "Modern Arnis' Next Generation" The names that came up were:

Eric Alexander
Dan Anderson
Mike Donovan
Tim Hartman
Jaye Spiro
Rick Ward

No mention of the Tapi Tapi group or any of the ther people who have come on to the scene since GM Remy's death. I've looked at old magazines and used the archive search engine. One name comes up time and time again, Datu Hartman. His name came up a lot on and off the IMAF site. The Tapi Tapi group have only been listed on the IMAF site.

I have also seen Dan Anderson's name come up a couple times. Seeing that he is doing a seminar with Hartman it tells me that they must have respect for each other. Anderson was a Modern Arnis camp host up until 1996. This also gives me the impression that we was active.

After everything I've seen and read, I keep asking myself one question. Where have they been? There is no quetion that many people have worked with GM Presas over the years. The quetion is how many people stayed with him.

My .02 cents
Red Blade

 

[Guro Harold]

It appears that Lisa McManus has now removed the title of "Professor" in her self-description of the Sama Sama festival on the www.professorpresas.com web site!!!

 

[Dan Anderson]

To Kodai and Red Blade:
Kodai - thank you for the posted facts. I am not interested in following hints thru the net to find out what is up. I like the straight links and facts. It does look like Lisa Mc came up through the ranks at record speed, didn't she. Are you coming to Buffalo so I can meet you? :cheers:

Red Blade - Lisa Mc posted that Tim was promoted in 2000 and was the highest ranked practitioner in the US. I was promoted to 6th degree in 1992 so Lisa Mc was wrong. The fact that here are titles involved besides the numerical ranking throws a curve ball into the heirarchy a bit. Now that there is also the title of Master Of Tapi-Tapi, another curve ball has been thrown. :shrug:

Tim and I get along well. :argue: We have a mutual respect which is based on open communication as well as our love for the art. We "bullbait" each other mercilessly on the subject of heirarchy and even have nicknames for the other based on our titles (No, I won't tell you what they are).

Yes, I have been active since 1980. In 1995, I remarried into an established family of 6 so my travelling curtailed by quite a bit. Heck, even Prof. Presas thought I had retired.
If you look in the early articles on Prof. Presas, You'll find that I am mentioned more than just a few times. :soapbox:

Yes, Tim and I will be doing a seminar in Portland, Oregon in June and I hope many to follow. I'll be in Buffalo for his gig so I'm lookin g forward to meeting as many of you as possible. :cheers:
Dan
PS - Lisa Mc has taken off the title of Professor. Good. If you see me titled as "Professsor," it is my Karate title, not my Modern Arnis title.

 

[Susumu Kodai]

Mr. Anderson,
Thank you for your understanding. Sadly, my work will keep me away from Buffalo for a while. But perhaps next year.

I have no challenge with you, however I must ask a question. It is my understanding that in that article, Ms. McManus was quoting GM Presas in his announcement that Tim Hartman was the highest "tested" black belt in at least the last decade.
(My apologies, archive.org appears to have problem today so am unable to provide link)

You state that you received your 6th degree in 1992. That is only 8 years prior to the referenced camp.

When did you test for your 6th degree in Modern Arnis?

I mean no offence, but perhaps the question here is around the word "tested"?

I am aware that there are several 6th degree Modern Arnis black belts...but how many tested for them, and how many simply had them awarded?

I will address Mr. Hartman at a later date...This "Renegade" I have many questions for...


Back to Ms. McManus and Mr. Dishonorable Delaney - The article referenced by RedBlade was altered repeatedly over the following months with Mr. Hartman's references slowly removed until it was as if he did not exist. This was all done while Grandmaster was alive. One might think that Dishonorable Delaney had his own agenda, and was working to remove Mr. Hartman in order to control the organization. This my conclusion, I can not provide references at this time.

I am happy to hear that MsMcManus has some honor, but as has been said, she should have known better. You sir, show proper respect for Grandmaster Presas. It is good to know that some of his students are honorable.

I remain, Kodai.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Its nice to know they changed it. Now if they would just be kind enough to geta warm body or 3 of theirs over here, it would be real cool.

I'll definately see ya at the camp Dan. Hopefully it'll have stopped snowing by then.


:asian:

 

[Dan Anderson]

Dear Kodai,
If "tested" is the question, you imply that Prof. Presas had a system which had a systematic, step-by-step progression so that one could test for further belt ranks after Black. Sadly enough to say, he didn't. In this manner, RP was "old school," much in the manner of teachers back in the Philippines and the orient prior to Dr. Kano instituting the belt system first found in Judo. They awarded certificates of proficiency in the orient and in the Philippines, the classmates knew who was first, second, etc. in the pecking order. Do your history research. America is one of the worst places on earth as to legitimacy issues. Hell, it took a cocky, oriental kid to tell Americans not to blindly follow tradition. the kid was Bruce Lee. Did I test? No. Was I a political promotion? Ask me to my face. I wish RP was here so you could ask him to his face. Tim Hartman wasn't asked to test. He wanted to test after seeing many political promotions and wanted to get his by sweat. That was his choice. My choice was to train so that the politicos would know I trained. Two different ways of handling that problem. We both earned our ranks.

Check out the article in Black Belt magazine several years back with the sidebar called, "The Next Generation." It was written by his student, Paul O'Grady, at Tim's request and nowhere in there does it state anything about political promotions and the like where my name or any of the others named are concerned.

Now Sparky, that might sound a little confrontational but it almost sounds like there is a veiled attempt to create a little animosity between "tested" and untested Black Belts. Hmmm. Tim and I have talked at length about his test and he is very proud of testing in front of the Professor. At no time has he made even the slightest hint or comment about my rank in any kind of negative manner. We have our own reasons for what we have done over the years and we get along just fine.

And yes, I have shown my teacher the proper respect for years.

Kaith -
I know it is frustrating regarding the MOTT's and JD. Neither are very communicative at this time. From what I get from a couple of the MOTTs, they are in a reformation phase since the departure of JD. I have emailed JD and Lisa Mc and have talked to JD once on the phone and have not heard word one from Lisa Mc. The Motts are very serious in carrying out the directives RP laid out for them prior to his death. At this time I don't know what they are but I am attempting to find out. I have been in communication with Randi Shea and Chuck Gauss regarding the aims and directives of IMAF (gorup). At this time there is the apparancy that independents aren't in the picture but I may be wrong.

Personally, I know the route my teacher took. He learned a system and then went on to better his skill both in the Philippines and in the US. He never stopped. He reached outside the art he learned, Balintawak, to other forms of arnis and other forms of martial arts to better his skill. I take my teacher's route. All for now, more at the camp in Buffalo.
Yours,
Dan

 

[Susumu Kodai]

I wish RP was here so you could ask him to his face.

I believe we all do

We both earned our ranks.

I will not disagree with you.

No confrontation was intended, only a clarification, which you achieved.

My apologies. I meant no insult. I do not, nor have I had a problem with you sir.

It is those who dishonor the memory of Grandmaster Presas that are our target.

I take my teacher's route.

In this sir, I believe you do him a great honor. I saw your earlier post with the message "Danny, Get Involved". Do so sir. Keep the art alive. Your books are very good. I look forward to more.

:asian: Peace.

I remain, Kodai.

 

[tsunaminw]

hartman is highest ranking modern arnis player in the us? lol. now thats funny

 

[arnisador]

Originally posted by tsunaminw

hartman is highest ranking modern arnis player in the us? lol. now thats funny

I believe that what Mr. Hartman has said is that he's the highest ranked active, tested Modern Arnis black belt. See:
http://www.wmarnis.com/resume.html

 

[Datu Tim Hartman]

Originally posted by arnisador



I believe that what Mr. Hartman has said is that he's the highest ranked active, tested Modern Arnis black belt. See:
http://www.wmarnis.com/resume.html

Yes, I use the word tested. It was GM Remy that said I was his #1 guy in the US at the end of the test in 2000. This is why Lisa wrote it in the Camp Chronicals. She was just quoting Remy.

 

[tsunaminw]

i understand. thanks for clarifying. my apologies for seeming rude

 

[Datu Tim Hartman]

Originally posted by tsunaminw

hartman is highest ranking modern arnis player in the us? lol. now thats funny

Why don't you explain your comment.

 

[Dan Anderson]

Yo! Folks! This has nothing to do with the last comment but I am back up on the net -
www.danandersonkarate.com
FINALLY!
Dan
And now the news. I am curious about the humor of tsunaminw's comment as well.

 

[Tapps]

I wrote the " Next Generation Article" that has been mentioned in this thread. The goal in writing this article was to enhance the profile of the art and help secure it's continuation.This is my take.

Tim Hartman gave me the idea for the article but I submitted everything to Professor Presas before Black Belt ever saw it. He approved the selection and what I had written. I wrote it on the condition that I would print nothing he disagreed with. Ensuring his art would outlive him was something Professor felt strongly about.

Black Belt magazine then took my 18 pages and cut it down to a sidebar. This is very much there right but it caused a little bit of confusion.

The sidebar ran along with an article by Jeff Delaney on the Professor. It featured photos of Remy using JD and Chuck Gauss as partners. I believe JD was a dalawa and Chuck was a tatlo at the time (I'm not 100 % so don't quote me).

The next generation list was NOT intended to be comprehensive. It listed the top practitioners by geographical region. Some very respected people were not included because they were in the same region as someone ranked higher. ( Example: Chuck Gauss was not on the list because he lives in the same state as Jaye Spiro who outranked him.) This was nessasary because I had to draw a line somewhere. Geographical boundaries seemed the fairest way at the time.

My point here is: All six of those individuals were, at the time of publication, among the top students of Professor Presas. I know this for a fact because I personally asked him. Others were very active and I do not mean to disrespect that. My 2 cents is that these six should be high on any list of Remy's top students.

 

[tsunaminw]

datu hartman


i replied earlier but dont see it posted.

ignore me,i dont know what im talking about. i misunderstood what someone else said, and came off sounding like a smart *** ,it was not my intention.

i understand you are the highest tested rank,no problems there. i was sick for a week and must have been grumpy when i posted ,when i reread my post yesterday,i realised i sounded like a jackass. my apologies

i think i came off differently than i intended twice in this thread,i should quit while im ahead. lol

 

[Bob Hubbard]

tsunaminw,
Excessive NyQuil usage will do that. (Man, I must be doing that stuff by the case, huh?)

Re: missing post - we had 2 minor hiccups. hopefully the servers burping less.

 

[Datu Tim Hartman]

Originally posted by tsunaminw

datu hartman


i replied earlier but dont see it posted.

ignore me,i dont know what im talking about. i misunderstood what someone else said, and came off sounding like a smart *** ,it was not my intention.

i understand you are the highest tested rank,no problems there. i was sick for a week and must have been grumpy when i posted ,when i reread my post yesterday,i realised i sounded like a jackass. my apologies

i think i came off differently than i intended twice in this thread,i should quit while im ahead. lol

No problem. I've had those days myself.
Tim H.


:cheers:

 

[arnisador]

Originally posted by tsunaminw

i think i came off differently than i intended twice in this thread,i should quit while im ahead.

It's the nature of this medium--no face-to-face contact, no body language, no voice inflection. It's going to happen to all of us sooner or later!

 

[arnisador]

Originally posted by Renegade



No problem. I've had those days myself.

Indeed--in fact, I'm keeping a list. Starting with you stepping on my glasses, continuing through my fractured rib, and going on to the present day.

 

[Datu Tim Hartman]

Originally posted by arnisador



Indeed--in fact, I'm keeping a list. Starting with you stepping on my glasses, continuing through my fractured rib, and going on to the present day.

You better have a big hard drive!

:toilclaw: :bird: :iws: :idunno: :moon: :hammer: