JD is using professor title for master!!!

[Guro Harold]

Hello All,

I was quite shocked to discover on JD's website that they are using the title of professor to designate the title of master!

The website clearly refers to Lisa McManus as Professor Lisa McManus and Michael Bates as well.

I have nothing personal against either of these two individuals and I deeply respect Michael Bates for looking after the Professor when he got sick, however, to use that title to me crosses the line of simple decency.

Palusut

 

[Datu Tim Hartman]

Unfortunatly there is nothing short of beating the crap out of them that we can do to stop them from doing this.

I believe that it is best to judge people by thier actions!


:idunno:

 

[arnisador]

I note from http://www.professorpresas.com/news.htm that Ms. McManus is using the title self-reefrentially.

On Saturday, February 16, 2002, Grandmaster Max M. Pallen hosted the SAMA-SAMA Martial Arts Seminar in San Leandro, California. Grandmaster Jeffrey Delaney, Professor Michael T. Bates and I (Professor Lisa McManus) were invited to represented Modern Arnis at this very special event.

What are the ranks and titles of Mr. Bates and Ms. McManus? By "Master" do you mean that they were 5th degree black belts?

 

[Icepick]

I'm thinking of dubbing myself "KING of MODERN ARNIS".

What do you guys think?

:knight:

 

[Celadora]

What do you mean we can´t do anything to stop this? We can do a lot; we can stop supporting this organization. Anyone who finds this move disrespectful can stop going to the seminars, camps, affiliated schools, etc of this organization. It is tough to be a ¨professor¨without any students.

I held grains of respect for the JD organization for a longer period of time than most, but I must agree that this crosses the line of respect to the Professor´s legacy.

 

[arnisador]

Originally posted by Icepick
I'm thinking of dubbing myself "KING of MODERN ARNIS".

May I have a dukedom?

It is disrespectful, in my opinion, to use "Professor", which was so closely associated with the Professor. And all the more so to now have multiple Professors whereas during his lifetime there was only one.

I'd like to hear a statement from Mr. Delaney regarding the use of titles in his organization.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Jeff Delany can do whatever he wants with his organization. We can say what we will, but, he makes the rules for his group. If you don't like them, there are other Arnis groups.

Alot of people have strong opinions on the various MA issues.... I would really like to hear Mr. Delanys side of this, and the rest of the issues.

 

[Guro Harold]

True, JD can do whatever he wants with his organization, however, to me this issue is about character.

A man or woman can remarry the day after they bury a spouse, but does that make it right? There is such a thing, even though it is not written, of respecting the dead.

GM Presas was only a man, so I am not saying that we should worship him and stop living our lives. But I am saying that it takes a lot of audacity to claim a title with such context so soon after his death without the years of experience, training, knowledge, and service that GM Presas and the other "Professors" have put in.

Palusut:soapbox:

 

[Dan Anderson]

Hmmm....Fascinating. It is JD's organization and he can promote how he wishes but I hope there is no serious backlash awaiting. I can see an Emin Boztepe incident coming in the future if this continues to escalate:duel: Personally, I see it as a validation of what I have been predicting for the last ten years and in my dreams, I see Ed Parker looking down at us laughing his *** off. Sorry, but that's how I see it.
Dan:wavey:
"I swear by the bood of my grandchildren that I will not be the one who will break the peace we have made here today."
Vito Corleone

 

[Susumu Kodai]

A self promoted "GrandMaster" who never tested for his last belt, but only had it 'awarded'....now less than a year after the death of the True Grandmaster of Modern Arnis, profanes his memory by passing out the title of 'professor', when to many many arnisidors around the world, the only true "Professor" is Remy Presas....

It is no wonder that the majority of the MOTTs selected to disassociate themselves from this dishonorable curr.

He seems to spit on the memory of the one who made him what his is.

It will bite him, in the end.


I remain, Kodai.

:asian:

 

[bloodwood]

Maybe they're doing it just to annoy the rest of the arnis community just as they have been doing since the Professor passed. You know like shoving it in our faces just to say that they can do whatever they want. If they don't think this will have repercussions they better think twice, some things you can get away with and others you can't. Disrespect will turn people off to their group, and rightfully so. Maybe they need to feel more important than they are. Legends in their own minds.
As for Michael Bates he was just promoted to 4th degree by the Professor shortly before he passed. If your name was Bates would you rather be called Master or Professor. Enough said.
:lol:

 

[Bob Hubbard]

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
no comment..... :rofl:

 

[Bob Hubbard]

In responce to the comments here and in other threads, it is a shame that no one from the IMAF cares to present their organization here. Perhaps they have a reason for doing some of the things that, to us looks 'wrong' but to them is perfectly ok. Maybe (playing devils advocate here) the use of the title is meant to honor GM Presas memory?

I would like to see an official IMAF comment on this issue, but have grown tired of sending emails that get no reply. Perhaps a lurking IMAF member can inspire a reply?



:asian:

 

[arnisador]

Originally posted by Kaith Rustaz
I would like to see an official IMAF comment on this issue, but have grown tired of sending emails that get no reply. Perhaps a lurking IMAF member can inspire a reply?

I absolutely agree. I would very much like to hear from a representative of either of the IMAFs on a variety of issues but I'd particularly like to hear from Mr. Delaney on this issue.

 

[Celadora]

Michael Bates calls himself, ¨jr. Prof¨on his own web page as well.

The fact that no one will defend the group for this forum says a lot about what type of following they have.

 

[Dieter]

Hi,
just my 2 cents about the use of the Professor title in JD´s IMAF:
Michael Bates was called junior professor by Remy Presas himself. If this was ment as a joke or as a title with relevance I don´t know, but I have heared "Michael Bates, the junior-professor" already around 1998.

In spanish speaking countries, a teacher is "el profesor".
Lisa McManus just started to teach in Mexico. Perhaps she was approached there with this title and then uses it in the US too.

When I was teaching in spain, I was approached like this too. But it simply means teacher.

For her using this title now in the US seems of course an insult for all of us, who don´t know why she does it and I agree, that it would be good, if somebody of JD´s IMAF would make soem explanations here. Why not mailing this question to her directly?
Btw, my last informations about her rank is 3rd Dan. But I am not sure if this is still correct.

In Germany nobody is allowed to call himself a professor, unless he earnerd this title through a long carrer at the university, has made all the necessary tests and written thesesis and all that (we call this a habilitation) and became a call, to be the head of a faculty at an official university. If you call yourself a professor without these credentialy, this is considered a crime because you pretend to be somebody or have a title, that you did not earn through a university career. You can come into prsion for that.

As I said, just my 2 cents to that topic

Regards form Germany

Datu Dieter Knüttel
http://www.abanico.de

 

[bloodwood]

Dieter is correct on Michael Bates being given the title jr professor around 1998. This was done by the Professor at the request of Michael Bates as not to have the title Master attached to his last name for obvious reasons.

 

[Dieter]

Wow, thats a good explanation.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Thank you for the info Datu Knüttel and bloodwood. That does make sence, and look less damning than on first glance.

Does anyone have a contact with the group and can get an offical answer? I'd try, but I'm really tired of sending invites and being ignored. (sent 5 last year). I'd really like to see all MA groups represented here.

Thank you.

:asian:

 

[Guro Harold]

So, I can understand the personal title of Jr. Professor given to Michael. Bates and true he did include it in quotes on his own website. But it does seem that Lisa ran with the "professor" title in describing herself and Michael Bates.