Is it likely???????????????????

Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Talk' started by thetruth, Aug 15, 2008.

  1. geezer

    geezer Grandmaster

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    I have to agree. Most guys who a prone to taking a physical approach to conflict resolution have probably had some martial training, boxing, wrestling, or the like. On the other hand it's probably pretty unlikely that you would come up against a high level practitioner just by chance.

    And, I wouldn't put a lot of stock in that whole "martial artists are too ethical and moral" to brawl. As on friend pointed out a very long time ago, there's no easier place to get in a fight than around the bathrooms at a big martial arts tournament.
     
  2. geezer

    geezer Grandmaster

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    Just one more thought. There are plenty of natural-born fighters out there too. A "natural" who has ability, likes to fight, has fought often and usually wins may be a lot more formidable than a lot of the people who are not fighters but do have a black belt. I've heard the same observation from at least two individuals that are high-level masters (actually "Grandmasters") of their respective systems.
     
  3. Xue Sheng

    Xue Sheng All weight is underside

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    :lol:

    Actually he was pretty seasoned :drink2tha
     
  4. mfuent1

    mfuent1 White Belt

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    I'd like to think it unlikely, and if it happens it would likely be by someone needing assurance that their style and/or training is "effective." There was an instructor (and a very bad one) around these parts who made a habit of picking fights in bars on the weekends and more often than not got his butt kicked. Sadly, he passed this attitude on to many of his students.
     
  5. shihansmurf

    shihansmurf Black Belt

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    Once.

    I ended up in physical altercation with a fellow who was pestering my wife. As he and I were having a discussion about it things heated up and he happily informed me that he was a Tae Kwon Do black belt and was required by law to inform me that he was such.. I found this much more amusing than I probably should have, and for the record laughing at the person threatening you doesn't really help to de-escalate a situation.I asked him how long he had been training and he told me for two years.Now at the time of this incident I had just passed my 17th year in the art. I also had 30 or so pounds on this guy so I wasn't that threatened.

    One pretty solid and only partially blocked round kick later I was much less amused. I landed a solid jab-cross combo and followed up with a neck clench with a few knee strikes. After that we went to the ground. Several guys st the ball field(my wife is a softball player) were able to separate us after a few more shots.

    I had a bloody nose and a strong reminder not to underestimate anyone that has any intention of kicking smurf butt.He had a broken nose, cut eye, one broken rib, and very sore testicles. He learned that not every short, chubby guy is a wuss.Both of us learned a valuable lesson about keeping our testosterone levels in check after a short discussion with local law enforcement.No charges were pressed but we got a stern talking to.

    I chalk most of it up to his being a young aggressive kid and, although I am not a jealous guy, I am protective of the Mrs. Once she asks a guy to leave her alone and flashes her ring I take a dim view of someone pushing the issue with her.

    Aside from the above I have been in a few knock down drag outs with buddies that I have trained with when younger but those were just temper flare ups and we are all still buddies now so I'm not sure if that counts. The worst that ever came of those was a few black eyes and bloody noses, so I'm not sure if those meet the criteria.

    The situation with the TKD "Master" and I was an object lesson for me in how not to let a situation get out of control. Now I don't feel bad about roughing the kid (he was 19) up, but I don't like that I let things get out of hand like that and fully recognize that my ego got the better of me that day.Thankfully, neither of us got injured in a serious and lasting way and we have both grown since then.That was seven years ago and I have met up with him a few times since. He has turned into a good guy and we have laughed about the whole situation. He told me recently that he uses that story as a cautionary tale.I'm not sure how I feel about serving as a warning but I'm glad that the incident worked out with minimal issues.

    Mark
     
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  6. Svart

    Svart Yellow Belt

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    Haha great story Smurf. I love that "I am required by law to tell you that I am a weapon." line.
     
  7. kidswarrior

    kidswarrior Senior Master

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    Thanks for the very honest account, Smurf. You've obviously become very wise about ego since then. :) For me, that's where I've gone most wrong in past encounters. :uhyeah:
     
  8. theletch1

    theletch1 Grandmaster

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    I haven't been but I'll relate a story my instructor related over a cup of coffee. He started his professional career as an RN at a hospital for folks who were mentally disturbed to the point that they were deemed "unsafe" for society. One of the inmates was a very accomplished martial artist. The inmate was having a conversation with one of the nurses, polite, smiling. The nurse was a small woman. Conversation over, she turned to walk away. The guy threw a side kick that stopped just an inch behind the woman's head. She had no idea that it had happened. He lowered his foot, looked at my instructor and an orderly with a smile that said, "See what I could do if I wanted?" For some reason, not long after that, my instructor began training in the martial arts. ;)
     
  9. Svart

    Svart Yellow Belt

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    Oh wow. Thats really quite scary. I knew a guy from where I grew up that was 7-8 years older than me, he had been in an institute 2 times for 2-3 years. He was very experienced in karate and bujinkan. I can see him being like that haha.
     
  10. jks9199

    jks9199 Administrator Staff Member

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    This gives me a nice segue into something that's not really been brought up -- and is VERY relevant.

    There are criminals out there training every bit as hard as you do -- and harder. Some in formal martial arts, others in back yards and prison exercise yards. They may not be "black belts." But they're practicing hard, often with full contact. And they're picking and choosing among what they see and learn based on effectiveness on the street. There's plenty of documentation of prisoners practicing and teaching each other.

    If your training is predicated on self defense -- you must balance your training for both the untrained and trained opponent.
     
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  11. Doc_Jude

    Doc_Jude 3rd Black Belt

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    Statistically speaking, I would say that it is VERY UNLIKELY to run into a martial artist of sufficient caliber to affect the outcome of an physical altercation. Of course, anyone that is sufficiently skilled in wrestling, a common high school sport in the U.S., would have an advantage in a knock down drag out.

    Just look at the statistics. How many fights does the average person get into? How, how what portion of the population seriously participates in martial arts? The odds are pretty low.
     
  12. MJS

    MJS Administrator Staff Member

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    Is it possible? Well, IMO, anything is possible.
     
  13. arnisador

    arnisador Sr. Grandmaster

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    There's training and then there's training. Attacked by a black belt in a dark alley? Not likely. But by someone who got lots of good advice while in jail, or who grew up in a rough neighborhood and had lots of fights, or worked as a bouncer at a dive, or who has earned lots of experience by attacking and robbing people, or got some training in the army before his dishonorable discharge, or the like? Yup. So, I wouldn't worry a lot about seeing the jump spinning back kick, but I also wouldn't interpret that to mean an opponent is "untrained".
     
  14. Rich Parsons

    Rich Parsons A Student of Martial Arts

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    I have seen a couple of fights with guys who were trained.

    I have had a few go after me in the past, and some were very good grapplers and wrestlers in their weight class.

    I have avoided many others when I bounced with good verbal skills because they or their friends advertised for them. So, I would explain that now that I know what art they train and what rank they have I know techniques they know and they know nothing about me.

    But I would think the numbers might be low.
     
  15. BLACK LION

    BLACK LION Black Belt

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    you used attacked and demonstrated in the same context.... but they contradict each other.....

    * if any one is "attacked" by someone with serious martial skill...they are either dead or very seriously injured.... most likely non-functional


    * a martial artist demonstrating serious skill is more common and I am sure most of us have come across this situation before.... it is completely social and yes it is most likely under "moral contract" .... where-as the previous is an asocial situation....

    story: I have a friend named ''CHAI" and he is a very skilled and very well trained in muay thai (if you only knew). There have been several situations in which he may have felt threatened by an individual or group ...I ahve been present when a group has threatened to jump him or whatever and he will always ask me before-hand if I will watch out for him (I do)... but for some reason , every single time no matter who it is or where we are he politely and discreetly knocks them out....sometimes its quick and sometimes he may have to lock the bathroom door.....
    I have seen people with skill attacked by someone with skill and they never see it coming..... the point is that even the most skilled martial artists, police officers and military personnel are all taught to be "defensive" but against the wrong guy it can be costly
     
  16. Kreth

    Kreth Grandmaster

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    Uh, how exactly does he knock them out? :idunno:
     
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  17. Brian S

    Brian S Purple Belt

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    I've never known of it happening personally.

    I don't think it's likely for martial artist to be attacked very often,but it happens.
     
  18. thardey

    thardey Master Black Belt

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    Absolutely! For these guys, it is their livelihood and a hobby. Not all criminals are lazy, and we can't underestimate their technical abilities. Fortunately, for the smarter/better trained ones, they won't pursue an attack unless they hold a advantage relevant to the prize. (See "Pot odds" in poker.)

    Since I'm don't have much of a prize to offer, the odds would have to be pretty squarely against me to invite a pre-meditated attack.

    If the you get these guys drunk and p.o'ed, on the other hand . . .123
     

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