Interest in an EPAK specific forum?

[cdhall]

I think that the best way to resolve this EPAK forum issue is by making Association Forums. Associations already have their members "on the same page" right? We should duplicate that success here.

We would need IKKA, AKKI, Kenpo 2000, Tatum, AKTS, etc fora and then everyone could of course use the General one as they see fit.

Ideally when a discussion goes off into an Association-Specific area, it can either be explained in the General Forum if that is where the discussion is at that the time, or moved off to the appropriate Association forum.

Ideally, there would be an Association member there as a moderator as well.

I don't think this will work, but I think it is the natural conclusion to this Quest. EPAK is too broad. There are too many legitimate derivatives. Like Kung-Fu and the Shaolin Temple.

We might want to make a Kenpo Kung-Fu forum though so we can all say "My style is better than yours" even though our lips can't be seen to be out of sync on the internet.
:rofl:

 

[qizmoduis]

Clyde and Larry Tatum seem to be popular targets for a certain group of folks on this and other fora. He's sometimes a bit prickly, but he absolutely doesn't deserve the constant bashing directed at him. Call him on his occasionall slips, sure, but there's no need to for such a constant stream of nastiness everytime the man posts. He can't post anything these days without getting harassed. It's stupid.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

I'd be happy to set up a forum specific to -any- organization, under the hosted forum area...but not as a seperate part of the kenpo (or any art) area.

Larry Tatum, Huk Planas, Frank Trejo, Sean Kelly, Zack Whitson, Doreen, Edmund, etc, are -all- welcome here.

Clydes idea is a good one, and -IF- we can get past egos and politics, and define it right, I think it could fly.

The idea of building an encycopedia would be a great thing IMHO. I'd love to be able to goto another site like Kenponet, and say "Hey, lets pool our resources, mirror each others stuff and share the wealth." This way, we all win.

:asian:

 

[ProfessorKenpo]

Originally posted by Kaith Rustaz
I'd be happy to set up a forum specific to -any- organization, under the hosted forum area...but not as a seperate part of the kenpo (or any art) area.

Larry Tatum, Huk Planas, Frank Trejo, Sean Kelly, Zack Whitson, Doreen, Edmund, etc, are -all- welcome here.

Clydes idea is a good one, and -IF- we can get past egos and politics, and define it right, I think it could fly.

The idea of building an encycopedia would be a great thing IMHO. I'd love to be able to goto another site like Kenponet, and say "Hey, lets pool our resources, mirror each others stuff and share the wealth." This way, we all win.

:asian:

Bob, would you please remove my membership?

Clyde

 

[clapping_tiger]

I never had anything against Clyde or anyone else. And I know that some people have a personality that causes people to butt heads. I have never met Clyde and I have from time to time enjoyed and learned something from his posts. It is sad that a simple poll like this has caused him to leave. But calling people "anonypussy" and saying the non-epak Kenpo artists are in a cult, to me seems like an insult. It does seem that of late he has been pretty angry about something. When I mentioned that I was surprised that he was not suspended(I did not say banned), I didn't mean for him to leave for good, but perhaps give him some time off of here to cool off and perhaps sort things out. If my post had something to do with him leaving I feel bad, but I assure you that was not my intention or I would have said so. But things like this

I'll post on the EPAK at CanAm and leave the cult members here. I can't believe some of the stupid reasons some of these idiots here have for saying no, and they don't even do EPAK. I do realize the average IQ for America is around 100 but it seems to have dropped considerably here with these posts. Don't worry about it, this place has been going to hell in a handbasket in the Kenpo/Kempo forum for a few months and I thought if you divided it, it might bring some order to it. Guess not.

just are not called for. The people who said "no" (which included myself)were just posting their point of view and they get called stupid idiots? And the way I read the post is that basically if you do not practice EPAK, then you are not worth the time to talk about Kenpo with or you don’t know anything about Kenpo. Clyde, if you still are reading these posts, I am sorry to see you go and whatever it is that is bothering you I hope you sort it out or it may consume you. Best wishes and I hope to see you return, in a better mood of course.:asian:

 

[Goldendragon7]

This was an unexpected direction for a string to go.......

 

[Old Fat Kenpoka]

I can't believe all the disrespect on this thread! And we aren't even talking about anything controversial like changing the system or anything like that. Shame on us.

While you may love or hate Clyde's approach, he is one of the most knowledgable people on this board and made a tremendous effort to educate and promote Kenpo. I happen to disagree strongly with much of Clyde's philosophy, but I respect his knowledge, his contribution, and his ability to communicate.

Shame on us for driving him away. Shame on all of us!!!

 

[SenseiBear]

I only browse the Kempo/Kenpo forums, so I don't know about other threads, but to use this thread as an example (and I just finished reading all the posts) - It looks to me like Clyde starts the name calling, then others respond. A disagreement or a question about how something would work is not a personal attack. The tone of many of the emails (and most of Clydes) have been childish and disrespectful.

I don't know Clyde, and he may be a very knowledgable Martial Artist - but on this thread at least, he has seemed like a Junior High school student who has decided to take his toys and leave (Screw you guys... I'm goin HOME.") and if that is the case, I say good riddance...

 

[rmcrobertson]

OK, fine.

Let me write here as a long-standing teacher of writing, and tell y'all what the problems are with the logic of these discourses.

First: there're far too many name-calling--what would be called, "ad hominem," (against the man, not the ideas/evidence) attacks. Then, too much denial that one actually lauched a set of insults. Often, too damn many insinuations that the opponent must be gay, or a girl.

Second: there're too many anonymous posters, which means that some folks don't have to take the slightest responsibility for what they write, and can insulate themselves against any look at their actual credentials. Academics try to be honest about this stuff, on the other hand, precisely to keep themselves honest.

Third: far too much refusal to supply facts (or what passes for them in kenpo), and far too much active avoidance of any request for facts or references of any kind.

Fourth. Endless arguments about a) trivia, b) who is the Great Grandfather of Kenpo, c) the politics of kenpo, d) why we shouldn't get into the politics of kenpo.

Fifth: Endless invocations of one's own religious/political/sexual orientation as the only true way to see things, coupled with endless attacks on those, "abnormals," who simply see the world differently. In particular, what we see here are repeated paeans to, say, our economic system, or Christianity, or whatever--and repeated, insistent verbal attacks on anybody who sees the world differently.

Sixth: too much swaggering and dick-waving and bragging about one's fighting skills, disguised especially as claims about, "being realistic," or, "being street-experienced," or whatever.

Seventh: too much jealousy, and far too little open-heartedness. Clyde for example may well be a jerk at times, and he's a bit scary to be on a mat with--and the fact that it is in part the function of advanced students to shake up the rest of us notwithstanding, I'd be rather surprised to find any evidence of Clyde lying, or exaggerating, or inventing credentials and experiences. I'd also be hard-pressed to find any evidence that he isn't simple and straightforward about his ideas.

Eighth: too little knowledge of how to argue and to write. And to read well.

Ninth: too much confusion of opinion with argument.

Tenth: way too much oedipalized discourse, in which the essential question always seems to me something like: "Who's the Father? Can I be the Father now?"

Eleventh: too little respect, and too little knowledge, of the history of martial arts.

Twelfth: too much disguised politicking and advertising. These things are fine, when done openly and acknowledged. Papered over, they lead to all manner of bad writing.

Thirteenth: too little willingness to get close to the mirror, and look for the beam in our own eye, before we worry about the mote in the next guy's.

Fourteenth: too much creation of "straw men," which is to say too much distortion of other people's viewpoints so we have something clear to attack.

Fifteenth: too much uncritical adoption of "progress," as an unequivocal good, so that whatever's latest tends to be what's best.

Sixteenth: too much Taking It All Seriously.

Seventeenth: too little Taking It All Seriously.

Eighteenth: the endless, and unproductive, pursuit of the unsolvable--witness this post.

I see that Clyde's about out of here. Can't wait to read the, "Should Clyde Leave?" poll, a repeat of the "Should Gou Leave?" poll. Personally, I'd argue that these guys come across very, very similarly in their writing. They both should be kept around, to keep us honest.

But I understand pretty darn well why Clyde's about had it. Insults, distortions, attacks on Mr. Tatum, often by folks who won't give their name and who can't spell. Insistence upon reading openheartedness and honesty as simple meanness. Insistences upon attacking one's abilities, or character, or--well, fill in the list.

Personally, I try to stay dispassionate. But I've 'bout had it too--I can't claim that I'm always logical, or informed, or non-partisan, or even polite, but I try.

 

[Touch Of Death]

I find it is best to take a couple hours and think about what has been said to me, rather than posting the first thing that pops in my head or I would have been banned a long time ago. Nobody doubted Clyde's inteligents but he considerd it his sworn duty to convince us that he was. Usualy this was done by calling people Strange, weird, or god knows what. Dennis, to use you as an example. Iv'e never, as long as I've been on Martial Talk, seen you resort to rudeness or call someone stupid to prove a point. You two hold the same rank (I think). I would sooner look to you for instruction before a man that has to bite back his anger just to talk to me.
Sean

 

[cdhall]

Originally posted by ProfessorKenpo
Bob, would you please remove my membership?

Clyde

Indeed I think it is ill-considered and bad for everyone for Clyde to have his membership removed.

Why not just go away for a few weeks or so like I have done several times since I've joined?

I don't see the point in qutting. I wish he'd stay around.

rmcrobertson makes several good points.

 

[CoolKempoDude]

I voted NO. I see no reason why we need to have a separate forum for EPAK.

We are in Kempo community together and have the same ORIGIN.

we are here to share with other about our kempo system/history.

if you want to discuss AK amonng AK people, i suggest you NOT to go online and discuss it. Why?

anything you discuss here is for EVERYBODY to see NOT your own *group*.

we are really divided in community already and creating another forum like another's suggestion will not help anything

 

[Les]

Originally posted by cdhall
I think that the best way to resolve this EPAK forum issue is by making Association Forums. B]

Doug,

Thats an interesting idea, but wouldn't it then simply duplicate whats already out there?

Most associations, and for that matter schools, already have a forum where everyone is 'on the same page'.

I feel most people come to Martial Talk to hear what the 'others' have to say.

Personally, I like the Kenpo forum here just the way it is, and the only change I would make is that I would have the moderators delete any post with a personal attack on any other member.

No warnings, no threats, DELETED!

Persistant offenders could have their registration cancelled.

(What about 'free speech' I hear you all cry? So, what about it?)

Les

 

[dcence]

For what it is worth, I think Clyde is right. I think it would be useful to have a forum where you know that it is the art as Mr. Parker left it at his death that you are discussing. I can see why he would want it. It doesn't exclude anyone, you will just need to know EPAK as a common base to make some sense in your posts. Me, I can put on my EPAK hat and discuss it, even though I am in the AKKI.

Derek

 

[MJS]

Yes, it is a shame that things came down to what they did. The unfortunate thing is that a person with alot of knowledge did leave. However, its one thing to be confident, but to be arrogant as well...well, that IMO, is something that he was. I know that I have talked about the faults that I have seen in Kenpo, and I have taken much heat for it. There is a difference though. I have never said that I was the know it all, the best fighter in the world, that my way of doing things is better, whereas that is exactly what Clyde has done. He has said many times, or given the impression that his word is written in stone and everybody else is wrong. Again, we all have different ways of training, I have mine and he has his. Its my opinion, that someone who holds a high rank should be willing and able to talk to everyone, regardless of whatever the question might be, and also do so, without making someone feel stupid because they dont do things his way.

I could probably write more, but I'd rather not. He has chosen the path that he wants and that was to leave.

Mike

 

[Cruentus]

Originally posted by ProfessorKenpo
Bob, would you please remove my membership?

Clyde

Fine...take you're ball and go home.

Sincerely,

Paul Janulis
A linguistic descriptivist who can mispel and missuse "your" (as I did again here) any other godddamn word he pleases.

 

[cdhall]

Originally posted by PAUL
Paul Janulis
A linguistic descriptivist who can mispel and missuse "your" (as I did again here) any other godddamn word he pleases.

And swear like a drunken sailor to boot. Paul, I think you are a high-ranking guy in some other system and I hesitate to attack you, but are you just trying to irritate Clyde, or all his "allies" or are you also now after how ever many Christians are on this board?

Where is George Carlin? What are the 7 words you can't say on the Net?

Man this is such a great place to visit. Pass the mud. I didn't bring enough for this thread.
:shrug:

 

[CoolKempoDude]

Originally posted by ProfessorKenpo
Hey Bob, really, forget I asked about this, I'll post on the EPAK at CanAm and leave the cult members here.

shall i say. Peace be with you and i truly hope you have a happy ending

I can't believe some of the stupid reasons some of these idiots here have for saying no, and they don't even do EPAK. I do realize the average IQ for America is around 100 but it seems to have dropped considerably here with these posts.

you are really an IDIOT and MORON if you think AK is the *best*. I hope you don't keep AK close to your balls every second. Of course, voting NO people will be IDIOT if they listen to you.

you have more AK people here. So what?? AK people knows how to do *business*

it is easy for you to tell other DO this and DO THAT but you don't actually do the work here.

you had your chances to express your OPIONs, NOW i and other have our chances. Take it or leave it

by the way, are you not HAPPY because you are NOT winning here ?????

 

[Old Fat Kenpoka]

Mike: I liked the arrogance. It fueled my attacks on the cannonization of Kenpo dogma! What will I have to rant about without having someone with whom I can always disagree?

 

[cdhall]

I hate to be the one to do this, but Several of the following General Rules as listed via the link on top of every page, have now been violated on this thread with little or no intervention from the mods. I'd have to go back and look. I do think Seig may have advised us all to be civil.

General Rules:
· No Flame Wars. Keep it civil, please.
· Keep the language civil. No profanity.
· Please post to the correct forum, for a reason and on topic. Do not cross post to multiple forums.
· Be respectful of the other arts, and your fellow members.
· No Advertising except in the advertising forums
· If you have a problem with another member, contact a moderator to handle it.
· Take the time to explore the Help, FAQ and User CP.

I think we used to follow these more closely and MT was better for it.