How long do you think you'd last?

Discussion in 'The Locker Room Bar & Grill' started by Chrisinmd, Dec 7, 2019.

  1. jobo

    jobo Grandmaster

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    i suspect the problem is that you have formed a number of irrational views that you don't like being discussed . i mean really its a discussion forum, what do you expect ?

    the fact your deciding to throw insults about over a minor discussion over living in alaska speaks volumes to your state of mind
     
  2. pdg

    pdg Senior Master

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    I'm quite sure I'd last pretty well tbh.

    In fact, I'd really quite like it.

    I know how to food, I know how to shelter, I know how to fire - and I know how to make tools...

    The thing that would absolutely kill it would be if any other people are around - contrary to what the survival reality shows would have you believe strength is not in numbers.

    Well, I suppose another person could be handy - if there's wild animals I could maim them and use them as a distraction, or bait. Or maybe an emergency food source...
     
  3. dvcochran

    dvcochran Senior Master

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    When I was in my early teens my cousin and I would frequently go out for 3-4 days/nights. Always within walking distance of his house or mine, we would go a few to several miles out. We would either have hook & line or a longarm and a flint stone, and what we could carry in out pockets but never took a lighter or any camping provisions. We almost always did it in the summer (southeast US) so weather was never a big factor.
    A few times we tried it in the winter and could never last the whole time we planned. I remember twice we were unable to get a fire started and gave up. We did last three days a couple times but we left the house very wrapped up and were able to get a good fire started. Things like not having to get wet just to get a drink of water when the temp is near freezing are easy to take for granted.

    We would discuss this question at length. I think if a person who was reasonably accustomed to adversity were put in the situation and could survive beyond the first 7-10 days they would have a better chance of getting 'acclimated'. But weather/temperature and a water source are huge, life threatening factors. The first thing we ALWAYS did was gather material and start a fire, and find/make shelter. To be effective I think they are dependent on each other. If the shelter is in a bad spot maintaining the fire is very difficult. Fuel was always a challenge.
    We always had the choice of giving up and walking a few miles back home; there was always a relative feeling of safety. Without this, the situation would certainly stress even the most seasoned person.
     
  4. kempodisciple

    kempodisciple MT Moderator Staff Member

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    First day during a cold night in the rain would be the toughest. Even without that the first day/night would be the toughest in general (I'm assuming there may be other complications including whatever lead to you ending up in the wilderness with no provisions in winter). After that it would be simpler.

    Regarding strength in numbers: I think it depends. If I was there with my brother, or a friend whom I know has survival skills and we've gone camping together, I think it would be fine, possibly even helpful. If it was someone without those skills and not used to the outdoors, that would be a very different story.
     
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  5. jobo

    jobo Grandmaster

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    you keep saying that, but being wet isnt the biggest problem, its not as good as being dry, obviously, but you body warms the water and the water then provides insulation from the cold water raining down on you, you can only saturate your clothes and after that it does matter how much rain you get.

    the problems comes when it stops raining and you start to dry out, that's when latent heat exchange occurs and you get really really cold, the evaporation turns you into a fridge, so in the scheme of thing, if you get soaked through then you really don't want it to stop raining till you get somewhere warm and dry

    im beginning to thing that the people on the other side of this discussion live in the tropics have never spent a day in the cold and wet
     
  6. jobo

    jobo Grandmaster

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    i had a similar idyllic childhood, which would no doubt be considered child neglect now

    where would disappear for a weekend or a week, leaving only vague detail of where we would be and even vaguer detail of when we might returned

    a group of 12 year old totally self sufficient, living off the little food we could carry and what ever fish we could catch or what ever crops we could steal from the farms,

    we did this in all weathers, from the scalding hot to the deeply frozen, we always carried fire lighters, sleeping in old huts or building shelters out of branches , breaking the ice of your jeans before you could get up, not helped that we were also totally bombed out of our minds on cheap cider, which is why we had little food, couldn't carry both, still like baked beans cooker in the tin with added charcoal, we even made our own bread

    happy days

    it was more dangerous at home, we had set up a lead smelting plant, where we would burn the lead off cables we had got out of derelict houses, mould them into ingots and weight them in
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2019
  7. dvcochran

    dvcochran Senior Master

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    Another factor that would apply to this comment is how many people are in the group. Having enough people to split up tasks is huge. It is a primary part of nomadic cultures. They travel in sized groups so that the essential workload is distributed but not too many to be burdensome. A single person in survival mode does not have this luxury.
    I suspect in a couple of weeks your dog would be looking pretty tasty.
     
  8. jobo

    jobo Grandmaster

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    were at cross discusions, he was talking about someone who had delibratly gone to live in the frozen north with polar bears, but had three months food a rile and various other tools and acruitments.

    now there no way id volunteer to go to the frozen north, with out at least the promise of a lucrative book deal at the end of it.

    but in those circumstances im pretty sure i could survive, even prosper, with out a 8 year planning cycle, as long as i could avoid polar bears

    that's somewhat different, to the other topic, which is base survival with next to nothing, in the instant case 40 degrees and some rain, i could last for weeks, thats aside from the fact that i could walk to civilisation in a coupe of days or so. in that situation id rather be on my own, less worry and nobody slowing me down. in alaska a bit of help building the log cabin and watching for bears would indeed be welcome

    if im dropped into in alaska wearing only plimsolls and a light jacket im dead with in the hour, if its minus 20, wouldn't have time to cook the dog
     
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  9. pdg

    pdg Senior Master

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    This depends on the context though.

    A single person who has a range of skills is likely to do far better than a group of relative specialists in a base survival situation. It ends up with the majority depending on the generosity of the minority who have applicable skillsets.

    A group of relative specialists who can split up tasks usually fare better over the longer term where there is the luxury of having the time available to use those skills - as in a long term community.
     
  10. dvcochran

    dvcochran Senior Master

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    Agree. With the exception of children I suppose, most everyone in a nomadic culture have a job. The old cook & weave/mend. The infirm are literally left to die sometimes. A very different and hard culture.
    If you use the plane crash analogy, where many of the group could be suits with little to no survival skills there would be major problem.
     
  11. pdg

    pdg Senior Master

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    Hence my previous "emergency food source" comment ;)
     
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  12. Steve

    Steve Mostly Harmless

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    Lots of National forests, and if you get into the mountains, it can get pretty hairy. Also, depending on where you’re at, the climate can be pretty different. Remember, each state (Washington, Oregon, and Idaho) are each almost as big as the entire UK. Oregon is actually bigger. It may be an inch or two on a map, but it’s a lot of ground to cover.
     
  13. Steve

    Steve Mostly Harmless

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    One thing to remember is that the climate in western Washington (west of the cascade mountain range) is much more temperate than elsewhere in Washington.
     
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  14. jobo

    jobo Grandmaster

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    i did a road trip starting in seattle and zig zagged around washington, oregon and down to san francisco, went whale watching and drank an awful lot of coffee, got in to a fight whilst playing pool in some hidden subterranean bar for a) beating them at there own game and b) playing '' dirty pool'' which is just how we play it over here and got chased by a bear, which i think only wanted my sandwich, but it left a lasting impression

    i did indeed notice how big they are, i also noticed that they are just like wales only bigger, except for the bears
    unlike new south wales, which has no resemblance to old south wales at all
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2019
  15. Steve

    Steve Mostly Harmless

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    Western Washington might be like Wales. I was very comfortable in the UK. But eastern Washington, Idaho, and a lot of Oregon, have very different climates than western Washington.
    Second, unless it was an extremely long road trip, I doubt you saw much. That would be like me saying I experienced the UK because I zigzagged around England and Scotland. You’re talking about a space that’s 4 or more times the area of England.

    Point is this. 1, yeah, you can be more than a few days from a major road. It’s big, and there is a lot of undeveloped land. That’s hard for someone in a place as relatively small as the Uk to fully realize. And 2, because of the size and geography, it’s really impossible to generalize the climate. Seattle and Olympia are cities in Western Washington, both in a narrow strip of land that is at sea level, next to salt water, sandwiched between two mountain ranges.
     
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  16. jobo

    jobo Grandmaster

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    oregon was most like wales, even the little sea side towns were like welsh ones, mountains, trees, very green rained a lot. i stopped in a sea side town called '' seaside, its like they started at the bottom and ran out of names by the top.

    im not claim to be an expert on the topology or ecology, i did however spend a month cruising round them in a convertible with the eagles playing full blast. so i do have an appreciation of what they are like and how big they are, it took me a month to get to san fran ( admittedly most of that time was spent in dinners drinking coffee) and 10 hours to get back to portland for my flight,doing a steady ton up the i5 and its like a go kart track at that speed,

    i still have the citation for speeding and the one i got for jaywalking
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2019
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  17. Steve

    Steve Mostly Harmless

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    Who let that sounds like a pretty awesome trip, if you didn’t venture far from the coast, you have only seen one small sliver of the various climates. Ontario Oregon, the Dalles, or roseburg are very different from anything on the Oregon coast. Similarly, if you get out to the Olympic Peninsula in Washington, you’re going to see very different weather than in Spokane or the Tri Cities. And Idaho is very different. All of that is PNW.
     
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  18. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    Water conducts heat.
     
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  19. Tez3

    Tez3 Sr. Grandmaster

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    One doesn't need to be in a huge wilderness with bears, wolves etc to be unlucky and die. However well you think you are prepared you are never prepared for everything and thinking you can handle everything is a big mistake. it seems to be a 'thing' boasting how great you'd cope in 'the wilderness' like some film hero or Sir Ranuph Fiennes, (even he though never comes away from his expeditions unscathed.)
     
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  20. pdg

    pdg Senior Master

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    Of course anyone can get unlucky and die.

    There's a chance I could slip in the shower later today and impale my head on the bath tap.

    Dumped in the arctic I'd be surprised if I lasted more than a couple of days.

    In the tropics I'd stand a higher chance, but I don't really think I'm at all prepared for the particular challenges that climate would present. Getting out alive would definitely be the one sole aim so everything I'd do would be toward that.

    In temperate zones though, I'm quite sure I'd fare well. I'm not stupid enough to think I'd be prepared for everything, but I know full well I'm prepared to handle a lot (a lot more than most modern people) and a lot more I can avoid. There's always something that may crop up that I can't deal with that would end me, but a chilly rainy night by itself certainly wouldn't be one of those things.

    In fact, if not for things like family being present to draw me back to 'civilisation' there's a damn good chance I'd choose to never return.

    Note here that I'm not in any way intending to equate this hypothetical situation with being an epic explorer or some sort of film star - more like those people who never make headlines that simply eschew society and quietly disappear, turning up once every 5 years to do a day's labour to earn a new pair of boots...123
     

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