How Effective Is Bodybuilding For Self Defence?

Discussion in 'General Self Defense' started by KangTsai, Jan 28, 2017.

  1. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    Walking away when someone is trying to attack you is neither easy nor simple. De-escalation only works if they are willing to let it (or if you can confuse them enough, in some cases). Sometimes, they don't leave an option that's better than engaging with physical force.
     
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  2. Steve

    Steve Mostly Harmless

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    It would be a very bad day to find yourself in a fight, but realize you've only ever learned self defense. Haha.
     
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  3. JR 137

    JR 137 Grandmaster

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    Unfortunately, I know this a little too well. I never looked for trouble and always tried to get out of it (including getting out of it before I got into it), but there were times trouble was looking for me.

    Simply walking away can be quite dangerous, i.e. turning your back on a potential attacker. Of all the mistakes I've made, I've never made that one.
     
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  4. Buka

    Buka Sr. Grandmaster

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    @Tgace, ever fight anyone stronger than you? I'll bet you have. Yet, you're still here. :)

    This is a Yin/Yang thing to me.
    On one side you have the old quote, which I somewhat subscribe to as to the general populace.
    “The race is not always to the swift, nor the battle to the strong; but that is the way to bet.”
    (multiple sources as to who actually coined the phrase)

    But then you have personal experience. Just about everyone is stronger than I am. So all of them should have bested, or killed, me.
    Didn't happen.
     
  5. Tgace

    Tgace Grandmaster

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    Not always....

    Just usually....

    I think the whole Yin/Yang, "strength is bad" thing is used as an excuse to rationalize a lack of conditioning by many "martial artists". Not ALL. Just many.
     
  6. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    I tend to agree with that. If you pit me against an equally skilled MA, but I am stronger (and at least equally fit/conditioned), I have an advantage. Strength, speed, and stamina make a difference, just as skill does. In a short fight/encounter, stamina plays less of a role than the others. Strength, speed, and skill can offset each other (a stronger opponent can be handled with skill or speed, a faster opponent can be handled with skill and maybe strength, etc.). Skill seems to have the largest effect, and strength the smallest (except perhaps in tight grappling), so a large amount of strength differential is most easily offset with a moderate skill differential in the other direction.
     
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  7. Tgace

    Tgace Grandmaster

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    This isn't directed at you gpseymour, or anyone in particular here...just freeflowing some thoughts.

    IMHO. A rigorous conditioning programs benefit is really just 1/2 in the actual physical attributes it provides. The mental aspect of pushing your way through discomfort (and the discipline of simply doing it even when you don't "feel like it") is just as...if not more..important.

    For example, Monday is my "100 burpee day". I do 100 burpees as quickly as I can, which is usually 20-30 at once then 10-15 at a time as I can manage. While the cardio/stamina building aspect of the movement is beneficial, I believe that overriding my "this sucks and I want to stop" reaction is probably more beneficial from a "combat survival" standpoint than what I'm doing for my body.

    I think that far too many "run of the mill" martial artists overestimate what they are "good at" and avoid (or belittle the importance) of what they are weak at. That's a human trait IMO and not limited to martial arts alone.

    "I cant run a 1/2 mile without puking, but most fights are over in 5 seconds so that's not important and cardio sucks...and I don't like doing it...so cardio isn't important or worth the time."

    "Being muscle bound will hurt my martial arts skill so I'll focus on using my opponents strength against them vs working on my strength training...because who has the time? And I'm not good at it, and I don't like people seeing I'm not good at something."

    Hell. I'm not a big guy and probably not as strong as I could be, but I work at it and don't try to deny that it's something worth working on.

    That being said, some MA have a significant amount of exercise built right into the practice, but not all of them. I remember being a guest practitioner at a Krav school where I was warned about how physically demanding it was going to be. To make a long story short, while it was a fun class, that estimation of what "physically demanding" meant was a sad indicator of what the average physical capacity is IMO.
     
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  8. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    Agree. This struggle (I think the Japanese term is shugyo) is a part of the real value of training, and something people get from training hard for almost anything (team sports, marathon, etc.).

    There's good and bad in this approach. Working on strengths tends to bring the second fastest gains (after working on key weaknesses). But it does miss the value of overcoming an obstacle.
    Agreed. I recently changed the "warm up" phase of my classes to be more demanding (putting in a few minutes of HIIT). I did this for the physical development, and also to set the tone for classes to be more energetic. I think a calm and cerebral start sets a very mellow tone for class, and a bit more energy at the onset will hopefully generate more energy in the class.
     
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  9. Xue Sheng

    Xue Sheng All weight is underside

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    My has been my thought for years...."There will always be someone bigger, stronger, faster, better trained or just plain luckier that you are on any given day...so why worry about it...just train"
     
  10. Tgace

    Tgace Grandmaster

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    Sure.

    Train.

    Train to be as strong, as fast AND as skilled as you can be.

    Luck? You can train that by making good decisions.
     
  11. Tgace

    Tgace Grandmaster

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    [​IMG]
     
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  12. Xue Sheng

    Xue Sheng All weight is underside

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    Then it is not luck

    Luck - success or failure apparently brought by chance rather than through one's own actions.
     
  13. Tgace

    Tgace Grandmaster

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    Depends on what you think luck is. Sometimes lightening strikes you on a sunny day while mowing the lawn. More often it happens while you are sitting against a flagpole under a thundercloud.
     
  14. Xue Sheng

    Xue Sheng All weight is underside

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    That is something entirely different from your previous statement which was "Luck? You can train that by making good decisions." and has little to do with the statement you made which implies luck can be trained and though that training you gain the ability to make good decisions and that is then defined as luck.

    What luck is, it actually it depends on the accepted definition of luck which comes from a English dictionary; which is "success or failure apparently brought by chance rather than through one's own actions."

    Therefore,making good decisions is not luck, unless you happen to make one by accident, then it is luck, but it cannot be trained
     
  15. Flying Crane

    Flying Crane Sr. Grandmaster

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    You don't need to be stronger and fitter than the other guy. But you do need to be strong enough and fit enough to be effective.
     
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  16. Tgace

    Tgace Grandmaster

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    "Apparently" is an interesting word.

    How To Create Your Own Luck
     
  17. Flying Crane

    Flying Crane Sr. Grandmaster

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    There may be some differences in the skill sets, but there is a WHOLE LOT of overlap. I would say more so than not.

    The difference is really in the dynamics of the interaction outside of the actual combative exchange. There is a psychological difference, a human interaction difference leading up to the physical side, and different goals in terms of what someone is trying to accomplish. For example, someone attacked in the street may be trying to escape with minimal injury and any need to "defeat" his attacker takes a distant second place in priority, while a sport fighter intends to stick around in order to defeat his opponent. This creates a difference in strategy and somewhat of a difference in the kinds of techniques one might use.

    But once it becomes physical, then it becomes much more difficult to claim a difference in the actual physical skills.

    Different, yes, but also a whole lot the same.
     
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  18. Xue Sheng

    Xue Sheng All weight is underside

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    Still not luck by definition, it is a catch phrase like "Zen" has become that is all.

    Luck, by definition is not planned, or trained. You can use the term any way you wish, I seriously doubt anything I say will change your mind. However you should also know I will not agree with your use of the word "Luck" because by definition, what you are calling luck, and what the article you attached is calling luck, is not luck. Sorry, facts are facts, and definitions are the accepted meaning of words....that is all.
     
  19. Tgace

    Tgace Grandmaster

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    Apparently:
    əˈperəntlē/
    adverb
    1. as far as one knows or can see.

    Fortuna audaces iuvat
     
  20. Xue Sheng

    Xue Sheng All weight is underside

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    Yes I know what apparently means, and I see nothing in any definition that says it can apparently be trained, planed for, or scheduled.

    Maybe you would like these better

    1. the force that seems to operate for good or ill in a person's life, as in shaping circumstances, events, or opportunities:

    2. good fortune; advantage or success, considered as the result of chance:

    3. a combination of circumstances, events, etc., operating by chance to bring good or ill to a person:


    Like I said before, we will not agree, I am working with accepted definitions, that is all. In my view your useage of the word "luck" in your origihal [ost on the topic, where you said "Luck? You can train that by making good decisions." is incorrect, that is all. I am not discussing beliefs about luck nor am I discussing the word luck as a catch phrase.123
     

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