How Effective Is Bodybuilding For Self Defence?

[oftheherd1]

As people do not generally try to starts fights with people who are bigger and/or stronger, how would bodybuilding prevent larger people trying to start a fight with you?

I am not a body builder, but I don't try to start fights with anyone, and would not just because I were a body builder. I am taking body builder to be one intentionally works out in a way as to build visibly large muscles.

I was never taught that size trumped skill.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

How much do you think the intimidation factor of massive, aesthetic muscles play into keeping yourself safe? I think you'll be pretty good, as long as you aren't the one starting that potential knife fight in the first place.
The intimidation levels hold exception for other branching physiques I think-

-Nordic strongman: intimidation factor +120%
-Tennis (only your dominant forearm is big and nothing else): intimidation factor -50℅
-Gains Goblin (short, dumb, ugly, but jacked): intimidation factor -12℅

I'll toss in my thoughts on this, because it seems to be wandering a bit (what?? wandering topics on MT???)

In many situations, an attacker or aggressive douchebag does a bit of "mental math". If they think a person is going to be difficult to deal with physically, they are less likely to put themselves into a situation where they may have to do so. This is not universal, but it is not uncommon, either. Many things go into that "equation":

• How confident do they look?
• How competent do they look?
• How threatening/strong/powerful do they look?
• How aware do they look?
• How many friends are around them?

And so on. Apparent physical prowess (including strength) would be part of that equation. How big a part? It probably differs from one situation to the next. But it is in there. Scrawny kids get bullied more often than athletically strong kids. Douchebags are probably a bit less likely to have a go at someone who looks bigger than them.

So, my answer is that it matters. Some. Maybe not much, but it matters. The actual size won't really help in a self-defense situation (though strength will), but it may give a slight edge in keeping things from getting to the point where you have to defend.

 

[Steve]

Your speed and limberness will likely, no, will indeed be effected. Limberness and speed is in important in a grappling art for application of techniques, and also in defense. Striking arts - both in speed of striking and in surviving greater injuries against grappling.

This isn't necessarily true. Look at gymnasts, dancers, Jean Claude van damme. When I was heading down to basic training, I met another guy from Seattle who was the biggest, muscliest, fittest and most limber guy I'd ever met. Seriously, this guy was a physical specimen. I wish I could remember his name, It seems like his dad ran a Kung fu school somewhere up north. Anyway, point is, you can be big and not strong. You can be small and not limber. And you can be big, strong and limber if that's what you're training to be.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

This isn't necessarily true. Look at gymnasts, dancers, Jean Claude van damme. When I was heading down to basic training, I met another guy from Seattle who was the biggest, muscliest, fittest and most limber guy I'd ever met. Seriously, this guy was a physical specimen. I wish I could remember his name, It seems like his dad ran a Kung fu school somewhere up north. Anyway, point is, you can be big and not strong. You can be small and not limber. And you can be big, strong and limber if that's what you're training to be.

Agreed. The reason most bodybuilders (and, in fact many lifters, in general) aren't limber is because they aren't working toward it. If you work out heavily without stretching, there's a good chance your muscles will actually shorten.

 

[oftheherd1]

This isn't necessarily true. Look at gymnasts, dancers, Jean Claude van damme. When I was heading down to basic training, I met another guy from Seattle who was the biggest, muscliest, fittest and most limber guy I'd ever met. Seriously, this guy was a physical specimen. I wish I could remember his name, It seems like his dad ran a Kung fu school somewhere up north. Anyway, point is, you can be big and not strong. You can be small and not limber. And you can be big, strong and limber if that's what you're training to be.

OK, strike "no, will indeed" as there will always be exceptions.

But Jean Claude van Damme?

 

[Transk53]

OK, strike "no, will indeed" as there will always be exceptions.

But Jean Claude van Damme?

Perhaps with JCVD then, the combined body building with concurrent ballet lessons helped.

 

[punisher73]

Too many variables to state that having big muscles will be a deterrent. In what situation are we discussing? In general, muggings etc. criminals like to select ones that are going to give the highest reward for the least amount of danger. Other variables come into play just besides having big muscles.

Also, I have run into many people with "small man syndrome" that purposely try to start things with bigger people (relative term, I know). Some guys just like to fight and will pick out big people to start trouble with, just because they like to fight. So being big and muscled actually draws trouble in many places.

If it's just a plain ol' bar situation where someone is drunk and offended, I think that if "big muscles" is deterrent enough to stop the fight, I think that the fight could have been stopped anyways with good de-escalation and communication skills because the person wasn't really wanting to fight, but just wanting to save face.

That being said, I think that fitness and strength training is important and larger muscles may be a by product of that training, but just training for hypertrophy and getting bigger muscles is wasted energy if your ONLY goal is to scare away potential bad guys.

 

[crazydiamond]

Both of these have been posted before for fun. Each of these highlights good fighters (great with Conor) vs strongmen. I think there is a point to be made when there is notable size differences with muscle. No matter your skill - or evil intentions - you are going to think twice about attacking someone much bigger and stronger.

 

[Paul_D]

Both of these have been posted before for fun. Each of these highlights good fighters (great with Conor) vs strongmen. I think there is a point to be made when there is notable size differences with muscle. No matter your skill - or evil intentions - you are going to think twice about attacking someone much bigger and stronger.

Your videos are of consensual sparring/fighting, which has nothing to do with self defence. So in the case of consensual sparring/fighting (as well as sport/competition; stepping outside into the pub car park to settle a drunken argument is also consensual violence and not self defence) then yes you would think twice about fighting someone bigger/from a higher weight category.

But for self defence, victim selection is done your perceived suitability as a victim, most notably body language, not size. If you pay attention walking down the street, you will see just as many big people with victim body language as you do small people. Another factor is that consensual violence is one on one, whereas self defence usually isn’t, so again size is not the biggest factor when it comes to selecting a victim.

Don't Walk this Way - How Your Steps Tell Psychopaths who to Attack | The Huffington Post

BBC Inside Out - Asking for it?

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

How much do you think the intimidation factor of massive, aesthetic muscles play into keeping yourself safe?

Old Chinese saying said, "一力降十会 - Strength can defeat 10 techniques". If your opponent is strong than you, no matter how good techniques that you have, it won't work on him.

When a monkey meets a tiger, that monkey has no chance.

 

[yak sao]

Old Chinese saying said, "一力降十会 - Strength can defeat 10 techniques". If your opponent is strong than you, no matter how good techniques that you have, it won't work on him.

When a monkey meets a tiger, that monkey has no chance.

Reminds me of something I heard back when I first started training MA....if two opponents of equal strength fight, the one with the best technique wins. If two opponents with equal technique fight, the one with the most strength wins.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Old Chinese saying said, "一力降十会 - Strength can defeat 10 techniques". If your opponent is strong than you, no matter how good techniques that you have, it won't work on him.

When a monkey meets a tiger, that monkey has no chance.

Not true, unless your opponent knows the techniques and is equally skilled. I've trained with many guys who were bigger and stronger than me. Some naturally so, some by bodybuilding. In no case was my technique useless, so long as I used it where there was an opening.

 

[crazydiamond]

Your videos are of consensual sparring/fighting, which has nothing to do with self defence. So in the case of consensual sparring/fighting (as well as sport/competition; stepping outside into the pub car park to settle a drunken argument is also consensual violence and not self defence) then yes you would think twice about fighting someone bigger/from a higher weight category.

But for self defence, victim selection is done your perceived suitability as a victim, most notably body language, not size. If you pay attention walking down the street, you will see just as many big people with victim body language as you do small people. Another factor is that consensual violence is one on one, whereas self defence usually isn’t, so again size is not the biggest factor when it comes to selecting a victim.

Don't Walk this Way - How Your Steps Tell Psychopaths who to Attack | The Huffington Post

BBC Inside Out - Asking for it?

Its a factor - and its about ranges.

You think any form of body language or walking style (short of showing a major injury or disability ) that the "The Mountain" is going to get jumped by any sane bad guy?

There are reasonable ranges and boundaries in predatory choices. I am not saying body language does not play a role - but there are limits when someone is clearly strong big.

Also I might say that lifting tends to improve your body language and attitude. If that little guy in the video you showed spent two hard years of nutrition and lifting - even with NO fighting training he would present differently - not just in size but body language. So there are links.

 

[Paul_D]

You think any form of body language or walking style (short of showing a major injury or disability ) that the "The Mountain" is going to get jumped by any sane bad guy?

Not by one bad guy no.

And which of the three Mountains are you referring to? If you are talking about Hafþór Björnsson, he is genetic freak and a professional bodybuilder, hardly representative of the majority of people who go to the gym on a recreational basis, which is what we are discussing.

Also, by your logic, if no one attacks big muscly guys Khal Drogo/Conan the Barbarian would never have been glassed in a bar, and Glen Ross (five times UK Strongest Man, three times Britian's Stongest Man) wouldn’t have been attacked in the street with a baseball bat.

There are reasonable ranges and boundaries in predatory choices. I am not saying body language does not play a role - but there are limits when someone is clearly strong big.

Of course, but unless they are a clear execption to the rule (Hafþór Björnsson) size is no guarantee that you won't be selected as a victim either (Jason Momoa/Glen Ross).

If that little guy in the video you showed spent two hard years of nutrition and lifting - even with NO fighting training he would present differently - not just in size but body language. So there are links.

True, but that still isn't going to stop you getting attacked, Jason Momoa/Glen Ross. Size is one factor, but I don't believe it's as big a deciding factor as you and many others think.

 

[drop bear]

Your videos are of consensual sparring/fighting, which has nothing to do with self defence. So in the case of consensual sparring/fighting (as well as sport/competition; stepping outside into the pub car park to settle a drunken argument is also consensual violence and not self defence) then yes you would think twice about fighting someone bigger/from a higher weight category.

But for self defence, victim selection is done your perceived suitability as a victim, most notably body language, not size. If you pay attention walking down the street, you will see just as many big people with victim body language as you do small people. Another factor is that consensual violence is one on one, whereas self defence usually isn’t, so again size is not the biggest factor when it comes to selecting a victim.

Don't Walk this Way - How Your Steps Tell Psychopaths who to Attack | The Huffington Post

BBC Inside Out - Asking for it?

We should look at that knockout game and see how many roid boys were chosen as victims. I am going to suggest not many. If any.

 

[Paul_D]

We should look at that knockout game and see how many roid boys were chosen as victims. I am going to suggest not many. If any.

Because big guys are never selected as victims.
Shogun Rua robbed at gunpoint in Brazil

 

[drop bear]

Because big guys are never selected as victims.
Shogun Rua robbed at gunpoint in Brazil

It is percentages. Not absolutes.

 

[Paul_D]

It is percentages. Not absolutes.

Agreed.

 

[PhotonGuy]

Bodybuilding is for looks and for image, its not about self defense. Here is a video that shows that when a bodybuilder goes up against a Jiu Jitsu fighter.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Bodybuilding is for looks and for image, its not about self defense. Here is a video that shows that when a bodybuilder goes up against a Jiu Jitsu fighter.

Nobody asked if bodybuilding was a good substitute for MA training. They were asking if the physical intimidation factor might be useful in preventing attacks.