Fess up...

[Jay Bell]

I'd say no...but if you're looking to detox the liver, Milk Thistle *and* Dandelion. MT helps the liver create strong cells, dandelion helps flush out impurities.

http://home.twcny.rr.com/andysresume/articles/Creatine.htm

 

[loki09789]

I read somewhere that creatine has a damaging effect on the liver after prolonged use. Does anyone know if this true or reported.

I know that it is recommended to cycle on and off of creatine if you are going to use it regularly. The main reason is so that the response to the introduction each time stays strong and the body doesn't develop an "oh, you again, so what" response (so to speak).

As far as long term affects in the negative, I don't know. I do know that it will create a tendency to suck water more because of the increase recuperative pace and there is some cramping in the muscles during the rebuild phases of workouts as well.

 

[Cryozombie]

Anyone know Anything about the "Legal" steroids like M1T or 1AD?

 

[Kembudo-Kai Kempoka]

Creatine is an amino acid, not a hormone, and that's what separates it from steroids.
Were you referring to Mark Mcguire, loki?
Creatine monohydrate is a supplement that serves as an energy reserve in muscle cells. Muscular contraction is powered by the breakdown of ATP (adenosine triphosphate) to ADP (adenosine diphosphate). When all the ATP is broken down, creatine phosphate in the muscle donates a phosphate group to ADP, and further energy reactions can occur. Creatine monohydrate is a precursor to creatine phosphate. By supplementing with CM, CP levels in muscle apparently are maximized, and more muscular work can occur, since there are greater energy reserves to use. That is why its recommended for high energy anaerobic workouts that deplete your ATP levels sufficiently enough that it will be of use to you. If you're not draining your ATP reserves enough in your workouts, then you wont notice the creatine really helping your workouts...maybe you'll have some more energy, but you wont be using it to its potential.
Creatine also helps with resistance training by bloating the muscle with creatine rich fluid. This allows for greater leverage and requires the muscle to move less and lift more weight. While this may seem kind of trivial, some researchers today think that one of the stimulating factors of steroid use is water retention. Anabolic steroids may actually work in part because of cellular fluid retention in the muscles. The swelling action and the related stretching of the cells may in and of itself cause a reaction which stimulates the muscle cells to grow. So in some respects creatine might be as good as steroids, minus the hormonal impact. Its not good to take on a continual basis though, better to cycle on and off...here's more info...
http://www.sportsci.org/traintech/creatine/rbk.html
http://www.rugbycoach.com/nutrition/creatine.htm
http://www.physsportsmed.com/issues/1999/05_99/juhn.htm

Steroids are just NOT good. There are much better ways to feed your body!

Anabolic steroids -- or more precisely, anabolic-androgenic steroids -- are the synthetic derivatives of the naturally occurring male anabolic hormone testosterone. Both anabolic and androgenic have origins from the Greek: anabolic, meaning "to build," and androgenic, meaning "masculinizing." Testosterone's natural androgenic effects trigger the maturing of the male reproductive system in puberty, including the growth of body hair and the deepening of the voice. The hormone's anabolic effect helps the body retain dietary protein, which aids in the development of muscles.
When your body is supplemented with a hormone like this on a more continual basis, it will start to forget the organ that produces it...I'm sure no man wants his package to be affected!!!

Side Effects....


Men - Although anabolic steroids are derived from a male sex hormone, men who take them may actually experience a "feminization" effect along with a decrease in normal male sexual function. Some possible effects include:

• Reduced sperm count
• Impotence
• Development of breasts
• Shrinking of the testicles
• Difficulty or pain while urinating

Women - On the other hand, women often experience a "masculinization" effect from anabolic steroids, including the following:

• Facial hair growth
• Deepened voice
• Breast reduction
• Menstrual cycle changes

With continued use of anabolic steroids, both sexes can experience the following effects, which range from the merely unsightly to the life endangering. They include:

• Acne
• Bloated appearance
• Rapid weight gain
• Clotting disorders
• Liver damage
• Premature heart attacks and strokes
• Elevated cholesterol levels
• Weakened tendons

Lesson? Feed your body well, but only mess with hormone levels when you have problems and the doc says its necessary!!!

Having edumacation in biochem and physio, and having been roid-head for a spell, allow me to respond to some of these.

Reduced sperm count and impotence? Some guys get what has been nick-named "deca-di#k" (after "deca-durabolin", one of the more common and preferred steroids). In this state, one may experience decreased sex drive. On the other hand, anabolic steroid use increases free testosterone levels by an average of 400-500 percent over non-using states, which can create the exact opposite of impotence. Yes, anabolics effect muscle sizer, and fluid retention. Can anybody here think of a sexual organ that's a muscle, and fills with fluid?

Liver Damage = Read the PDR on the studies behind Liver functioning and tumors. While on anabolics, the liver does go absolutely nuts, and creates neoplasms...tumors. Interestingly, however, these are "benign" neoplasms, and they go away within months of discontinuation.

Testicular shrinking: Yep. The "boys" turn off, because of the test levels in the blood being soo much higher than normal. After stopping a cycle, test levels drop below normal before the body senses this, and turns the boys back on again. Usually, this time between the cessation of exogenous test and resumpotion of endogenous test makes one crabby, moody, sensitive, and many other things.

Difficulty and/or pain with urination -- yep. Prostate swells up like a softball. On cycle, one holds quite a bit of water. Everywhere. Seems to come out of the sweat glands easier than the bladder.

Acne, etc. Yep. Tricks your body into thinking it's 16 again, when you were indestructable and capable of doing all sorts of stupid things without consequence...and you probably had acne at 16.

Tendon weakness - Fabrication/misinterpretation of the data. In studies on oldsters being given metered doses of test at regular intervals, all of the bodies connective tissues showed positive improvements, including tendon thickness and resiliency. Most athletes using roids do so to push themselves on the court or the gym floor...unfortunately, the muscles develop strength at a rate that's exponentially greater than tendons. Take a body-builder stuck at repping 60 pound dumbells. 1st couple weeks, he won't notice much aside from some irritability, water retention, and irritability. About 2-3 weeks into the cycle, he'll notice his workouts don't sap him as much as they used to, so he'll step up the intensity just a bit. Between weeks 4-6, something amazing happens. The drugs are in full swing, and you can just walk into the gym and look at the weights, and get bigger. Strength seems to know no bounds. You break personal records with ease, sometimes just 2 days after you just broke it again. Meanwhile, the tendons...slower to follow the act by strengthening secondary to the specific adaptation to imposed demand, do not share this mighty leaps and bounds development and recovery. The 60 lb weight becomes 80, the 100, then 120, and so on...until finally a tendon goes, "pop". The old dogs who have been around the block with their drug use plan for this by using simple wisdoms like "low weight, high reps...6 sets of ten, and go home". After all, it's not the workout creating the body...it's the chemicals. So beating the body down to build it up is pointless.

Elevated cholesterol levels and clotting disorders? Heck yah. Spikes in cholesterol levels -- the bad stuff -- are one of the "you can count on it, bubba" effects of anabolic use. They'll come down after quitting. Some of it is directly due to the injections or tabs: roids are a cholesterol, just like many of the other tissues in the body. But the liver certainly does seem to favor making more LDL (lousy-day lipids) while on cycle.

With elevated chol levels come increased risks for heart attack and stroke. Not to mention, you're holding water, then creating increased fluid pressure through increased exercise. If there's a small imperfection in your hoses, you're priming the pump for a tear.

Why did I use them? I had a rotator cuff tear (not complicated by acromial impingement) and a SLAP lesion of the glenoid labrum, as well as multiple back injuries. I needed to train through the pain to strengthen these parts for self-rehab. Would I do it again? Nope. My injuries are back, and were back as soon as I got off the juice. Still takes me the better part of 1/2 hour to get going in the AM b/c pain and stiffness of old MA orthopedic injuries.

Would I encourage others too? Nope. Too many health risks (not to mention, I think my inevitable bald spot came on sooner secondary to use).

OTC steroid precursors? Most current studies say they make as many female hormones in your bod as they do male...so what's the point? (worst ***** tits I ever got was on the OTC's, and not the injectables.) FYI -- McGuire said he was on an OTC anabolic, not creatine. It was the thing to say if you got caught using roids, because the urine and blood panels test the same for OTC as for Rx.

Dave

 

[SMP]

I have not used but some of my friends I have lifted with did and do. In my openion the 2 worst side effects are personality changes/mood swings and decreased hormone production. I have had the privelage to work with some great people and honestly never needed hormonal assistance. I would be lying if I said I never thought about it but the benefit is short term and not worth it.

 

[Patrick Skerry]

I have no more desire to use steroids than I do to drink a pint of whiskey.

 

[Vadim]

In college I knew some guys who were on Sustanon and other anabolics in an attempt to get strong and freaky. Yeah it got them big and strong but the side-effects and the complete change in personality is not worth it. I personally have never considered taking steroids and never will.

-Vadim

 

[OUMoose]

I have no more desire to use steroids than I do to drink a pint of whiskey.

*hic*

heeaaay... Don't knock it till you try it... *hic*

*passes out*

 

[Venomstrike]

Steroids seem to cause too many problems I (whether short term or long term). There is no way I'll ever touch them.

 

[Kembudo-Kai Kempoka]

Curious thing about roids: Most people who have, do, or would use them lie about it because of the social stigma and legal ramifications attached. I once staunchly despised the concept, much as I despised the idea of having my life decisions informed by drinking...another vice I wrestled with, and must keep an eye on still.

Painful Lesson: Despise things loosely...we often become those things we dislike the most.

Dave

 

[Melissa426]

I was just on ESPN.com reading about Bonds and Giambi and all that mess.
They have a poll there that question web visitors "Would you use steroids if it helped you earn millions of dollars per year as a professional athlete?"

About 250,000 had submitted a response and the results were almost even, with those saying no with a very small lead at 51-49.
I was appalled at how close it is.

Peace,
Melissa

 

[jfarnsworth]

Have not taken them. Never have and never will!

 

[te75uo]

I will never touch them. I do not want that type of muscle. I prefer the small defined strong type as opposed to the large ones.

 

[Kembudo-Kai Kempoka]

I will never touch them. I do not want that type of muscle. I prefer the small defined strong type as opposed to the large ones.

They make steroids for that type of development. Some are for developing big 'ol spongy muscles, while others have a"trimming" or "cutting" effect, all resultnig in the user getting stronger simlpy because of the chemistry of roids. (Read on the web the differences in expected outcomes from use of dianobolin vs. equipoise vs winstrol injectable).

Now, if you can get compact, dense, strong muscles on a lean profile, do you want them?

D.

 

[Simon Curran]

OK thanks to all for the chemistry and biology lessons...

I personally have never tried anabolic steroids, although there was a time when I considered it, since I was a big framed but gangly youth.
I have, however, tried creatine supplements, and in my case they most certainly had the advertised effect, in about 3 months I gained 12 kilos (about 25 pounds) of muscle, but after stopping lost about half of it, but became more defined.
I must admit, that if I decided for some reason taht I needed to gain weight again I probably would use creatine again, but I can't think of any good reason why I would want to, since I am not exactly small at 6ft2 and 220.

 

[Kembudo-Kai Kempoka]

OK thanks to all for the chemistry and biology lessons...

I personally have never tried anabolic steroids, although there was a time when I considered it, since I was a big framed but gangly youth.
I have, however, tried creatine supplements, and in my case they most certainly had the advertised effect, in about 3 months I gained 12 kilos (about 25 pounds) of muscle, but after stopping lost about half of it, but became more defined.
I must admit, that if I decided for some reason taht I needed to gain weight again I probably would use creatine again, but I can't think of any good reason why I would want to, since I am not exactly small at 6ft2 and 220.

That is usually the best one can hope for with roids. Both cause water retention, with creatine holding more in the belly of the muscle (lending to the "instantly bigger muscles" phenom), and roids causing compartmental retention in the thorax and abdomen ("roid gut/bloat"). Either helps you train harder & recover faster. Once off them, you drop the water; hopefully, holding the strength and lean mass put on, while on.

D.

 

[Simon Curran]

That is usually the best one can hope for with roids. Both cause water retention, with creatine holding more in the belly of the muscle (lending to the "instantly bigger muscles" phenom), and roids causing compartmental retention in the thorax and abdomen ("roid gut/bloat"). Either helps you train harder & recover faster. Once off them, you drop the water; hopefully, holding the strength and lean mass put on, while on.

D.

Well that about settles it for me then, if I was to want a bloated belly I think beer would be much more fun...

 

[joyce]

I've never done illegal steroids, but I had them prescribed to me by a doctor.

I was on them for a week, and the next month and a half I was jumpy, nervous, and had a quick temper. It wasn't fun at all.

 

[asangria]

I've taken steroids for medical purposes - post-pneumonia asthma.

I never bothered finishing the treatment of 14 weeks. I experienced headaches and frequent nose bleeds.

There was an incident in our studio where a student, who was on 'roids, became enraged and started to take his aggression out on the lower belts. Our master stepped in and subdued him. He was of course shown the door.

 

[bdparsons]

Never took 'em... though I have suffered from them on occasion. But that's all behind me now.

Respects,
Bill Parsons
Triangle Kenpo Institute