Failure: Pro's and Con's

Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Talk' started by Utahblaine, Mar 12, 2019.

  1. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

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    Success is better teacher. If you get used to the failure, you will not get used to the success. Many things in our life, we don't have chance to fail 700 times. If we fail more that few times, we may lose our job, lose our marriage, lose our lives ....

    How many times can you fail in your SAT, GRE exam? When a knife is stabbing toward your chest, if you just fail once, you will be dead.
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2019
  2. wab25

    wab25 Black Belt

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    If you will look around your keyboard, you will find a key that has this picture on it: . It is hidden on my keyboard, as the same key has > as well as the . on it. When typing your thoughts out, please hit that key, the one with the . on it, a few times. It is very hard to figure out what you are saying. Please break up your words into thoughts, and use punctuation. If the . gets too expensive, use the , instead. Heck I would even settle for using - between phrases.

    "Being a failure is ok once | 2nd time but the 3rd time is a no | try and try until you succed | to be a failure is not trying your best in what u do | you dont put effort in what you do | me im not perfect at all | i did a lot of failure that i learn from and abd i tell my self i will try and try until i succeed"

    Notice how putting any marker in between your thoughts helps the readability. It is very hard to gain any insight from what you say, when I get frustrated trying to read it.
     
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  3. JR 137

    JR 137 Senior Master

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    Depends on what you’re failing at and how you define failure.

    You’re a big proponent of the single leg takedown. How many times did you fail at it? How many times when you just started learning it did you consistently fail at it before you started to get proficient at it? How many times until you got good at it?

    All those times it didn’t work, you can look at it 2 basic ways...
    1. It didn’t work
    2. You learned how/when not to use it

    How many different ways do you have of using that takedown successfully? You wouldn’t know those successful ways without learning the unsuccessful ways, and usually figuring it out the hard way.

    Failure isn’t the problem. It’s how you respond to it and what you do about it that’s the problem or the solution. Unless it’s a life and death, or the like situation, failure is a good thing. It’s good so long as you learn from your mistakes. If you teach me single leg takedown and I don’t get it right the first dozen times, do I stop trying because I’m getting too used to failing?
     
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  4. Buka

    Buka Grandmaster

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    I googled that to spark my memory. I know I saw it, but don't remember it. Gonna' have to watch that puppy this week. God, I love movies.
     
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  5. JR 137

    JR 137 Senior Master

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    Kurt Russell and Robin Williams. Williams’s character dropped the ball to lose to their arch rival in an infamous football game and wants to replay the game at 40 something. Classic.
     
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  6. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    Just not true, John. Our brains learn much more, and more persistently, when presented with unexpected outcomes (failures).

    There are times you don't want to fail. But that doesn't change that failure is a necessary part of learning in other areas.
     
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  7. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

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    In Taiwan, all high school graduation will need to take college entrance exam. Which university that you will go depends on your score. The exam only offers once a year. If you fail, you have to wait for another year. How many times can you d to fail? When your classmate is already in college but you are still repeating that exam, you will have nightmare for the rest of your life.
     
  8. dvcochran

    dvcochran Senior Master

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    If you are collegebound, the same is true for your grades in the states for the most part. Failure with healthy expectation is a very good teacher. Being shamed to the point your life is a nightmare is something very different. I think the motivation and improvement after a failure that most of us are talking about comes from within. It should always be the loudest voice in your head.
     
  9. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    Yes, but what has that to do with what I said? You're picking points where a specific failure isn't a good thing, which isn't at all what's being discussed.
     
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  10. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

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    Because this is what you have said.

    Some people may say that failure is OK. I just give examples that failure is not OK. In another thread, people talk about how nice an axe kick is. Not many people want to talk about the risk that axe kick may involved.

    The UT Austin computer science department graduate school requires 1,400 GRE score (double the math). If you can't make 700 in your GRE math (800 is the full score), you won't be accepted. The competition is hard and failure does change your life.

    We also need to talk about the failure that can be bad for the rest of our lives.
     
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2019
  11. wab25

    wab25 Black Belt

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    You are correct. This is a case where failure will change my life. It would be bad to fail at that test. So, since I don't want to fail, I just won't take the test. I can continue to have success working fast food, for minimum wage. This way, I don't have to worry about failure, I can only have success, and it does affect my life.

    If I find a great school teaching Chinese Wrestling... I can go try it out. But with my years of Danzan Ryu Jujitsu... I will probably fail at doing the Chinese Wrestling techniques... Since failure is not ok... I won't go learn Chinese Wrestling, I would rather keep having success in Danzan Ryu.

    In fact, if I get promoted in Danzan Ryu, I will get a new list of kata to learn. I am going to fail at those new kata, because I don't know them. If failure is not ok... I won't bother to test and progress any further... I will just be happy with my current state, always having successes at the things I already know.

    When I graduated with my degree, I applied for a job in my field. I failed. That failure changed my life. I could not work at that company. But, I believe failure is ok. I learned from it. I learned what I did right and what I did wrong and what I forgot to do. I applied to the next company. Failed that interview too. Went through the process again, and kept applying. I failed a lot. But, I continued to improve. I applied at nearly 100 companies in my field, before landing my first job. All those failures, helped me get better at the applying / interviewing process. I have been layed off a few times... but each time, I have been able to use those skills, gained through those failures, to find a new job. In fact, every time I have been looking for a new job, I have had multiple companies trying to out bid each other. Yes, those failures changed my life.

    You can let failure ruin your life, by being too afraid to fail... so you don't try. Or you can let it ruin your life by quitting when you fail. Or, you can use that failure to make you better, stronger and more skilled. Its your choice.

    Note: I was not exaggerating, I really did apply to over 100 companies, upon graduation from college before landing my first job in my field.
     
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  12. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

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    I look at this differently. I'll prepare myself to the best that I can before I take that test.

    Since my 7th grade, I have not gone to bed before 2 am in the morning. If I can study twice as hard as others, I won't fail. Before my last tournament back in 1984, I moved a 250 lb rock from one place to another place daily for 3 months. During the tournament, I knew I was the strongest person in the whole tournament.

    If you don't want to fail, you have to study/train harder.
     
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2019
  13. wab25

    wab25 Black Belt

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    Remember this guy?

    He trained long. He trained hard. In fact, going by age, I bet he trained years more than his opponent. The problem was that the people he trained with did not want him to experience failure. They helped him succeed always, by falling down when he flapped his arms. It was so successful, that it built this guys confidence up to the point he made a challenge and put money on it. Then he got his teeth knocked into his Depends. Had the people he was training with, allowed him to experience failure when he flapped his arms, there is a good chance that he would have been better prepared for the MMA guy. But, since his training only allowed him to have success, he gets to look for his dentures in the last place a person wants to find them... and he is out a bunch of money.

    It would be interesting to know what happened with this guy, after that fight. Did he quit? Did he double down on no touch? Or did he go learn something effective?
     
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  14. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

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    The problem is he did not take realistic test. If he had tested his skill in the boxing ring, the outcome in that match could be different.

    I believe the SAT (for college admission) and GRE (for graduate school admission) test in US has good standard. I don't know how many times that you are allowed to fail in those test. It won't be 700 times and that's for sure.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2019
  15. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

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    If you have job interview with Microsoft, you may have to answer the following question:

    "Why are manhole covers round?"

    A round manhole cover cannot fall through its circular opening, whereas a square manhole cover could fall in if it were inserted diagonally in the hole. Circular covers don't need to be rotated or precisely aligned when placing them on the opening. Around manhole cover is easily moved and rolled.

    If you can't answer this question within 30 seconds, you may not get that job. In other words, you cannot afford to fail even once.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2019
  16. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    You give examples of individual points where failure isn't okay, but that doesn't establish that failure isn't okay in general. That's like saying surgery isn't okay, because you wouldn't have surgery for [insert any condition surgery isn't appropriate for]. Sure, failing at the GRE is a bad thing. Failing at individual math problems while learning earlier in life likely increases the chance of passing that GRE.
     
  17. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    To do that, he'd have to be willing to fail. You've just countered your own point, John.
     
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  18. wab25

    wab25 Black Belt

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    I went to an interview with company A. I failed their interview, and did not get the job I wanted. I continued the process mentioned before, and eventually worked for company B. Then, I moved on to company C. After working at company C, I went back to re-interview with company A... This time around, I had made myself into a better candidate such that company A needed to out bid 2 other companies, if they wanted me to work for them. I took the job with company A, that I had wanted in the first place, only at a much higher level and higher pay. This is because I was not afraid to fail... When I did fail, I used the failures to improve. In this case, I improved myself to the point that company A was no longer interested in tossing me out, based on some obscure riddle. Microsoft is not the only company to use obscure riddles in their interviews. When a company known for doing that, leaves the obscure riddling out... it means they are interested, and you are driving. I needed to fail, in order to improve, to get into that position.
     
  19. Blindside

    Blindside Senior Master

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    You do have to study and train harder. Before I took the SAT 30 years ago I took a prep course for it. Every weekend for 5 weekends before the real test I took a full practice SAT. I was then coached on what I needed to improve on or strategies that would help me with the exam. My opportunities to fail was in the practice exams so I could be more ready for my real exam. Taking those practice tests didn't get me "accustomed to failure," it prepared me for success.
     
  20. dvcochran

    dvcochran Senior Master

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    UT Austin is the only school you can go to?
     

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