FACT VS FICTION

[Frank Dux]

Awesome… how many knuckleheads you got?

 

[CB Jones]

Just the 2 pictured.

Older brother is handicapped so he fills the role of his Agent, Manager, Promoter, and Videographer. He is a shrewd negotiator that completely spoils his lil brother.

 

[Frank Dux]

Just the 2 pictured.

Older brother is handicapped so he fills the role of his Agent, Manager, Promoter, and Videographer. He is a shrewd negotiator that completely spoils his lil brother.

Thats even more awesome as the two grow they learn early on to support each other emotionally and spiritually. Your obviously a good man to inspire those roles in your children and your wife must be a saint. Not too many women can deal with martial arts competing with them for attention.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

FACT vs. FICTION



First off you cant arbitrarily declare a 100 man Kumite is not a tournament when a tournament is defined as a contest between multiple competitors.

Your framework of understanding is seemingly based upon an erroneous assumption. Yes, while some Karateka who view a 100 man Kumite as a test of endurance it nonetheless can be and is under Society of Black Dragon utilized in the Asian cultural traditional manner. Multiple people are in competition with each other in attempting the same feat (i.e. fighting and defeating 100 or 60 combatants).

Each competitor is measuring their performance vs the next person facing the same challenge. The 56 man knockouts argument you propose is done according to western cultural tournament interpretation which is rules of single elimination. This round-robin jousting format is not true in the case for all Kumites.

Each fighter has 60 opponents to fight. Scores are tallied by wins vs defeats by which to determine the final winner. Some participants cannot complete the sixty fight requirement and thus are eliminated. Some fight the sixty bouts but lose more matches compared to another competitor doing likewise. These tournaments can be held and conclude over a period of one day or up to 18 months. I hope this dispels the assumptions and faulty conclusion.

So just to clarify, what is the tournament that you entered with the 56 KO? To clarify, I never heard of it until this thread...I'm just curious on how the tournament worked...was it single or double elimination, or a round robin situation, or a free-for-all with 60 participants that you came out on top? EIther way, 56 KO's are incredibly impressive, I'm just curious about the circumstances around them.

I'm guessing from your comments it was a round robin. So do you happen to remember how many competitiors there were, and hd how many of them you defeated?

As a side note, I'm thinking back to a specific tournament (the temple open) when I fenced. We would have a tournament that was 2 rounds round robin, followed by single elimination. There was somewhere around 200 people in each weapon that would participate. So we would have a round robin pool with 6 people, where the top 80% would continue, then a second round robin to determine comp was probably 10 matches at max, so assuming both round robins and single elimination, the most matches would be 20. And that was with 200 competitors per weapon. So my question is; how many competitors were at your tournament, and how did you (or the organizers) manage to arrange so any fights before determining the victor?

 

[Frank Dux]

I can't remember exact number of who attended when I earned that record but I think the confusion largely stems from people assuming its 56 different people because of how the movie portrayed it as single elimination bouts.

You have to understand it was many years ago and I fought in any number of different events. Each promoter all had different formats.

UFC/MMA copied Bloodsport but gained its success when it was restructured along the lines of traditional boxing with timed rounds.

Traditional Kumite is based on aggregate amount of fights fought and then comparing the number of wins to determine the final elimination rounds. For example Ken beats Tom in two out of three matches but Tom nonetheless ends up declared winner or moves into elimination circle because the amount of wins Tom had over Ken over the course tournament was greater.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

I can't remember exact number of who attended but I think the confusion largely stems from people assuming its 56 different people because of how the movie portrayed it as single elimination bouts.

So were the 56 people, some of the same? And was it single elimination, or round robin?

 

[Frank Dux]

I have entered events where I fought several fighters more than once.

I was the winner of one event doing a 60 man Kumite (20 fights per day for 3 days). Another event I fought was conducted over an 18 month period in which I fought well over 60 different opponents total match ups.

There existed Kumite events where winner does a 100 man Kumite not ever fighting same guy twice. But the 100 fighting aren't all necessarily one's competitors entered in the competition.

In golf you play against the hole and who has lowest score wins. Likewise, who has least loses or points against them wins.

What made this a fascinating challenge is that the formats changed which kept everyone on their toes. Also it wasn't about competing for prestige and $$$ like in UFC but respect and honor of fellow Black Dragons and invitees… After all, the Kumite was a learning experience. More about having a safe environment to exchange information and test not only yourself but technique. Thus, where you weren't judged inferior to the other fighter because you failed to be the winner.

In those days there was no other means to get "real information." No books or film footage and certainly no internet existed by which to dive into to attain pearls of wisdom. Point fighting didn't do it for many of us… and neither did kickboxing because it lacked grappling.

It was the golden age of True Martial Arts Spirit -- by invitation only.

The biggest loudmouths and deniers were either too CS to compete or worse… never were invited to participate or even watch. So of course they deny or poo poo it. But Ed Parker Father of American Karate was there… Mas Oyama held his own version of it… In Brazil it was called Vale Tudo… even televised. In Chicago in 1969 Michael Felkoff was the promoter who held the first MMA bare knuckle open challenge that Official Karate covered.

I hope this was helpful to you.