Discussion concerning Presas Family Styles

[monkey]

Yes I have --I dont publish a lot of what I do.I cant aford It.As for how Bud Thompson dose it .He gives students 1month notice befor I come down & post it on the new once but it stays for a bit.

I have done seminars in Vegas.I realy love Vegas.Ive done a lot actualy.

I do have it on archives but if I talk of if--Im told I promote myself
& my videos threw this site.
I just want to share info.
Then others even on this post Who have been told to stop.
Find new ways & yet continue.

 

[Dan Anderson]

Hi Tom,

A couple of clarification points re Ernesto and Remy.

1. Remy learned from his grandfather, Leon. He has stated this on video
twice and I have both videos.

2. He learned his grandfather's art, which included the palis-palis, figure
8, and banda y banda.

3. I have read nothing about Remy learning from Jose or any claims to
that matter. I know Ernesto learned from Jose.

4. Remy left home at age 14, met up with the Moncal balintawak group
and worked his way up to learning from Ancion Bacon, the founder of
balintawak.

5. Remy formed Modern Arnis, taught Ernesto and Roberto or, at the very
least, they were his juniors in the gym that Remy ran.

6. Remy went to the USA on his first trip and while Ernesto was "minding
the store." Remy came back and they had a falling out. The full
details are for those whoever Remy told the story to but up to that
point Ernesto was teaching Modern Arnis.

7. The falling out was of such import that Remy and Ernesto never saw
much of each other until Ernesto's heart attack in San Francisco many
years later.

8. Ernesto considers Modern Arnis one of the portions of Kombatan. This
he told me himself.

9. From watching Ernesto and working personally with Remy for many,
many years, Ernesto does not move like Remy. There are body
shiftings and so forth that Ernesto and his students do not use very
much. My line of thought is that his granfather taught Remy more
blade oriented actions than Jose taught Ernesto. Remy's distance
work, I believe is more from the grandfather and his close quarters
work is definitely balintawak based.

Yours,
Dan Anderson

 

[stickarts]

Hi Tom,

A couple of clarification points re Ernesto and Remy.

1. Remy learned from his grandfather, Leon. He has stated this on video
twice and I have both videos.

2. He learned his grandfather's art, which included the palis-palis, figure
8, and banda y banda.

3. I have read nothing about Remy learning from Jose or any claims to
that matter. I know Ernesto learned from Jose.

4. Remy left home at age 14, met up with the Moncal balintawak group
and worked his way up to learning from Ancion Bacon, the founder of
balintawak.

5. Remy formed Modern Arnis, taught Ernesto and Roberto or, at the very
least, they were his juniors in the gym that Remy ran.

6. Remy went to the USA on his first trip and while Ernesto was "minding
the store." Remy came back and they had a falling out. The full
details are for those whoever Remy told the story to but up to that
point Ernesto was teaching Modern Arnis.

7. The falling out was of such import that Remy and Ernesto never saw
much of each other until Ernesto's heart attack in San Francisco many
years later.

8. Ernesto considers Modern Arnis one of the portions of Kombatan. This
he told me himself.

9. From watching Ernesto and working personally with Remy for many,
many years, Ernesto does not move like Remy. There are body
shiftings and so forth that Ernesto and his students do not use very
much. My line of thought is that his granfather taught Remy more
blade oriented actions than Jose taught Ernesto. Remy's distance
work, I believe is more from the grandfather and his close quarters
work is definitely balintawak based.

Yours,
Dan Anderson

Points 4, 5, 6, and 7 are in agreement with what Prof. told me.
The other points were also mentioned in tapes and / or make sense.

Thanks Dan.

 

[Rich Parsons]

Hi Tom,

A couple of clarification points re Ernesto and Remy.

1. Remy learned from his grandfather, Leon. He has stated this on video
twice and I have both videos.

2. He learned his grandfather's art, which included the palis-palis, figure
8, and banda y banda.

3. I have read nothing about Remy learning from Jose or any claims to
that matter. I know Ernesto learned from Jose.

4. Remy left home at age 14, met up with the Moncal balintawak group
and worked his way up to learning from Ancion Bacon, the founder of
balintawak.

5. Remy formed Modern Arnis, taught Ernesto and Roberto or, at the very
least, they were his juniors in the gym that Remy ran.

6. Remy went to the USA on his first trip and while Ernesto was "minding
the store." Remy came back and they had a falling out. The full
details are for those whoever Remy told the story to but up to that
point Ernesto was teaching Modern Arnis.

7. The falling out was of such import that Remy and Ernesto never saw
much of each other until Ernesto's heart attack in San Francisco many
years later.

8. Ernesto considers Modern Arnis one of the portions of Kombatan. This
he told me himself.

9. From watching Ernesto and working personally with Remy for many,
many years, Ernesto does not move like Remy. There are body
shiftings and so forth that Ernesto and his students do not use very
much. My line of thought is that his granfather taught Remy more
blade oriented actions than Jose taught Ernesto. Remy's distance
work, I believe is more from the grandfather and his close quarters
work is definitely balintawak based.

Yours,
Dan Anderson

Thank you Senior Master Dan Anderson

 

[monkey]

Mr Anderson;
That was as Remy would say "Beautiful."
I was simply stateing a quote He made from( the 3 Black belt tapes) were he said( His Grandfather Bonco).
I can look up & pinpoint exactly were & which 1 if you have them &
then we can resulve the staement were He did say BONCO!

Im not yellig.Please dont take it as such.
I just want the people to know Jose had ocinico & corto kuntao.

This is why each differ in how they move.Yet I had time with both.Remy did grant me rank.
Im honored your senior master.I have seen on the master thred they
wont realy note masters as such.

As Remy told me in Honor & I give you these great words for you to use as see fit.

Laging Una, Walang Urong,Laging Sulong!

Always first,Never retreat,Ever forward!!

 

[Dan Anderson]

Mr Anderson;
1. That was as Remy would say "Beautiful."
2. I was simply stateing a quote He made from( the 3 Black belt tapes) were he said( His Grandfather Bonco).
I can look up & pinpoint exactly were & which 1 if you have them &
then we can resulve the staement were He did say BONCO!

3. Im not yellig.Please dont take it as such.
I just want the people to know Jose had ocinico & corto kuntao.

4. This is why each differ in how they move.Yet I had time with both.Remy did grant me rank.
Im honored your senior master.I have seen on the master thred they
wont realy note masters as such.

As Remy told me in Honor & I give you these great words for you to use as see fit.

Laging Una, Walang Urong,Laging Sulong!

Always first,Never retreat,Ever forward!!

Hi Tom,

1. Thank you.
2. You know, it wouldn't surprise me if he did say Bonco on one of his tapes. I have one where he says his grandfather is Leon. I do have the Balck Belt tapes so if you can pinpoint it, please do.
3. I don't hear you yelling. No problem.
4. I don't know Jose Presas' system so I couldn't say. If you have a bunch of Jose Presas footage I'd love to see it. It would make sense that the two brothers had two different teachers so they would move different. What I find interesting is the possibility that the father and grandfather did different styles or flavors or arnis. Hmmm...that's a thought.

As to the rest, thank you for the compliment.

Yours,
Dan Anderson

 

[monkey]

Ok I watch take 2 he stated I leardn from my uncle Leon Bonco..

I dont recall Leon being Bonco..Maybe it can be reserched by some one.Its on tape 2 of the black belt relese set.As far as I was told Jose Presas y Bonco & then there Was (Stoke & Leon )who were not Bonco.

There has to be some way to check for sure.
If they were Bonco then there is some other type of
bonda y bonda & espad y daga.
This is were I realy need to understand & we Ernesto said he did serrada!
Im just as determind & as pastionate on the arts as you.

If we do unlock this serrada that Ernesto told me of --Then the void of the
so called split may make more sence as to why!
It was fun as the 2 tought me in Sacramento 1979-80.
It might be fun agian to get that union of the arts & void as 1!

 

[Rich Parsons]

Uncle is the closest translation to Manong and other honorifics used in the PI.

As to reuniting - I honestly wish you good luck.

 

[monkey]

It's come to my attention, through personal research, that it is quite probable that Remy Presas was the most prominent and active creator of Modern Arnis. I have read many different articles, some in favor of Remy and some for Ernesto, as far as who was the founder. What I have found has lead me to believe Remy was the prime creator, but with assistance from his brother Ernesto.
Check out this site for more info:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remy_Presas

 

[modarnis]

It's come to my attention, through personal research, that it is quite probable that Remy Presas was the most prominent and active creator of Modern Arnis. I have read many different articles, some in favor of Remy and some for Ernesto, as far as who was the founder. What I have found has lead me to believe Remy was the prime creator, but with assistance from his brother Ernesto.
Check out this site for more info:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remy_Presas

That's quite a revelation for you. Its only what everyone here has been telling you since you started posting already knew. It has been published in works by Remy Presas, Mark Wiley, Dan Anderson, and hundreds of magazine articles. I for one am relieved you finally are up to speed

 

[Dan Anderson]

This is were I realy need to understand & we Ernesto said he did serrada!
Im just as determind & as pastionate on the arts as you.

If we do unlock this serrada that Ernesto told me of --

Here is something to look at. Serrada is what Angel Cabales called his art but serrada is also a position from which to fight as well (stick arm across the body setting one up for an abanico strike). It could very well be that this is what Ernesto meant when he said he did serrada. It's like fighting from a right or left lead. Something to think about.

Yours,
Dan Anderson

 

[Dan Anderson]

What I have found has lead me to believe Remy was the prime creator, but with assistance from his brother Ernesto.

Hmmm...I'm not so sure but I am going to ask this of Cristino Vasquez, Rene Tongson, and Roberto Presas when I go to the PI in July.

Yours,
Dan Anderson

 

[Guro Harold]

Here is something to look at. Serrada is what Angel Cabales called his art but serrada is also a position from which to fight as well (stick arm across the body setting one up for an abanico strike). It could very well be that this is what Ernesto meant when he said he did serrada. It's like fighting from a right or left lead. Something to think about.

Yours,
Dan Anderson

Yeah, That's cool!

I remember the 80's series had several cool L v R techniques which GM Presas demonstrated, particularly a strip and an abanico that came out of nowhere from the this position.

The later videos used entries from the open positon left against the closed right position.

The first indicator that you were a "TB" was to reverse the driving/lead role.

The second indicator that you were a "TB" was to be able to enter at will from any entry.

The third indicator was when you said "screw it" and countered each counter at will (AndyZ and Aldon, I hate you)!

 

[monkey]

Ok I Got it finealy from what you stated Mr Andrson;

In Balinntawak Ramond Tabosa had such great serada players under him.Some of these were Friends & did train of & on with the Preasa line as well I had time under them.Yet didnt know that they themselvs were being
tought Balintawak.
Here are the serrada players Bonifacio Lanzaga & Telesfero Subinb Subing.They just called it Escrima & didnt use the term serrada only like Angle.Here is the means to the missing thred that links Ernestos Serrada & some of the close range Remy had.
I told you it could be!!!Wow--that is unque in it self that those who enspired such had a melting pot & yet it could couse just enough friction to separate.I could see were 1 of the Presas brothers would demo something of it & the other might be mad as
escrima had alot of conflicks & confrontaions.

 

[Rich Parsons]

It's come to my attention, through personal research, that it is quite probable that Remy Presas was the most prominent and active creator of Modern Arnis. I have read many different articles, some in favor of Remy and some for Ernesto, as far as who was the founder. What I have found has lead me to believe Remy was the prime creator, but with assistance from his brother Ernesto.
Check out this site for more info:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remy_Presas

Tom,

The creation of the Art was his.

The name of the art came from his wife.

I take nothing away frmo GM Ernesto's accomplishments, but he was not the creator.

Just like another well know FMA GM who told I think it was Inside Kunf Fu in the 70's that he was the GM of Modern Arnis. After Gm remy showed up to their office with his Book which had his picture on it and it said Father of Modern Arnis on it. They retracted the preivous article and did an interview with him.

I understand that in modern society a family can have more than one father. Yet, unless some real high tech is used to split genes from multiple donars of genitic material, there is usually only one Father of a creation. Just as there is only one Mother of the creation.

Now I understand that inventions have more than one person. I also understand that multiple people can go into business with each other.

Yet, in this case. GM Remy was the Father and Creator fo Modern Arnis. Now should his Brothers be given credit for what they have done? Yes! Should his Father and Grand father also be given credit? Yes. But it was the single mindedness of GM Remy to spread his art, that put his compelte stamp on it. He was away from his family for long periods and later was separated from them as well for a time period.

I find it hard to believe that you are now just coming to the same conclusion that the rest of us from multiple organizations and locations, have known from our own research with the late GM and also through others willing to share here.

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

Tom,

The creation of the Art was his.

The name of the art came from his wife.

I take nothing away frmo GM Ernesto's accomplishments, but he was not the creator.

Just like another well know FMA GM who told I think it was Inside Kunf Fu in the 70's that he was the GM of Modern Arnis. After Gm remy showed up to their office with his Book which had his picture on it and it said Father of Modern Arnis on it. They retracted the preivous article and did an interview with him.

I understand that in modern society a family can have more than one father. Yet, unless some real high tech is used to split genes from multiple donars of genitic material, there is usually only one Father of a creation. Just as there is only one Mother of the creation.

Now I understand that inventions have more than one person. I also understand that multiple people can go into business with each other.

Yet, in this case. GM Remy was the Father and Creator fo Modern Arnis. Now should his Brothers be given credit for what they have done? Yes! Should his Father and Grand father also be given credit? Yes. But it was the single mindedness of GM Remy to spread his art, that put his compelte stamp on it. He was away from his family for long periods and later was separated from them as well for a time period.

I find it hard to believe that you are now just coming to the same conclusion that the rest of us from multiple organizations and locations, have known from our own research with the late GM and also through others willing to share here.

Yes, this has all been pretty common knowledge!

Brian R. VanCise
www.instinctiveresponsetraining.com

 

[seibukan]

Why no mention of GM Lazo when discussing the founding of Modern Arnis.

 

[Rich Parsons]

Why no mention of GM Lazo when discussing the founding of Modern Arnis.

Could you explain your qustion further and also give some information please?

Thank you

 

[Rich Parsons]

Here is something to look at. Serrada is what Angel Cabales called his art but serrada is also a position from which to fight as well (stick arm across the body setting one up for an abanico strike). It could very well be that this is what Ernesto meant when he said he did serrada. It's like fighting from a right or left lead. Something to think about.

Yours,
Dan Anderson

Dan,

While I do not disagree with the term being used as you described it, I however was comparing it to the Cabales Serrada (* kind of *), with the motions being used by Tom in his thread "Monkey" in the Members in Motion Forum.

I know many terms cross over from art to art and respect that. I was speaking speficially to what was demostrated on video by Tom and how it was not Modern Arnis, but at best could be Modern Arnis like at that point but was closer from my understanding to other FMA's.

Thank you for the discussion on this point though.

 

[Rich Parsons]

Hmmm...I'm not so sure but I am going to ask this of Cristino Vasquez, Rene Tongson, and Roberto Presas when I go to the PI in July.

Yours,
Dan Anderson

Dan,

Please do so. Other points of view and data points would be good on this as well.

Thank you