Discussion concerning Presas Family Styles

[monkey]

I started around 1975 & the art was not only fun-but every once in a while , we got to see it being shown to the military.I vowed Id do the same.The art went in 2 way after the passing of 1 of the founders.1 took it threw mono y mono,international arnis,philippino modern arnis,arjunken, & finealy combaton.
The other took it from the balintawak foundation & mixed verious to come up with Modern arnis.Later arnis de tranaka was introduced & some do tapi tapi (from what Ive seen tapi tapi was 1 part of de tranka)
I personaly stayed with the core of what was layed out.As for example!
There is one art today that has a wing chun base & boxing.Then it when to more of epie aproch & more twords the boxing with,flavor of wing chun.
Later it be came Jeet Kune do.The core in this art would be wing chun based with epie enfluance & boxing.
The core of the art was great emtpy hand skills-(hence the mono y mono art)Great wepons defence & counters.Great foundation!Hence the (internation asso & the arjuken)The Arjuken was Arnis -Judo & Kendo!Its all fun & should be shared.

 

[Rich Parsons]

I started around 1975 & the art was not only fun-but every once in a while , we got to see it being shown to the military.I vowed Id do the same.The art went in 2 way after the passing of 1 of the founders.1 took it threw mono y mono,international arnis,philippino modern arnis,arjunken, & finealy combaton.
The other took it from the balintawak foundation & mixed verious to come up with Modern arnis.Later arnis de tranaka was introduced & some do tapi tapi (from what Ive seen tapi tapi was 1 part of de tranka)
I personaly stayed with the core of what was layed out.As for example!
There is one art today that has a wing chun base & boxing.Then it when to more of epie aproch & more twords the boxing with,flavor of wing chun.
Later it be came Jeet Kune do.The core in this art would be wing chun based with epie enfluance & boxing.
The core of the art was great emtpy hand skills-(hence the mono y mono art)Great wepons defence & counters.Great foundation!Hence the (internation asso & the arjuken)The Arjuken was Arnis -Judo & Kendo!Its all fun & should be shared.

BS! :bs:


There is one and only Founder of Modern Arnis. That is Remy Amador Presas.

 

[Rocky]

When Remy founded Modern Arnis Ernesto was only about 10 years old!

Remy founded the art by himself!!!




Rocky

 

[modarnis]

When Remy founded Modern Arnis Ernesto was only about 10 years old!

Remy founded the art by himself!!!




Rocky

That was always my understanding as well. Remy had already founded and established Modern Arnis, then prior to his departure for the US, turned some degree of responsibility over to Ernesto. When Remy remained in the US, Ernesto was left to teach in the Philipinnes. After that, Ernesto developed his version of the art into Kombaton.

I have to second Rich's flag raising to the earlier post. Rocky is at least a dozen years senior to me, but our versions of history, from Professor's mouth seem consistent on this and other issues

 

[monkey]

If it was constent & he Started around 10yr of age --Then Why is Jose pictured with Ernesto! Remy took Balintawak & other arts?Remy has not been tought by Jose Presas y Bonco..
Remy said in the
black belt tape His Grandfauther Bonco tought him !!!!
Bull ," Jose the father is" Bonco " --Stoke the Grandfather is nor nor ever will be Bonco.
Jose never tought Remy any of the family art nor did Stoke.Enesto took many long truck
rides to train a bit with Stoke

Jose is pictured With Ernesto in the Philippines teaching the Armed Forces.
Ernesto Got his Grand master Rank from the Bokbakahn--Not Remy!!!!!!
There is no family record to suport Remy to the Family art!
Ernesto Has been Recognised & teaching high Dignataries & photos to supor with Letters of Recomdation!!!

 

[monkey]

For Those Who Are Interested in the History

I found this 1 of many that post some documentation to the hitory of the art.


http://www.cfwenterprises.com/article.asp?s=cfw&content_id=3229

I hope this helps.This is what I was give to post.

Mabuhay

 

[Rich Parsons]

If it was constent & he Started around 10yr of age --Then Why is Jose pictured with Ernesto! Remy took Balintawak & other arts?Remy has not been tought by Jose Presas y Bonco..
Remy said in the
black belt tape His Grandfauther Bonco tought him !!!!
Bull ," Jose the father is" Bonco " --Stoke the Grandfather is nor nor ever will be Bonco.
Jose never tought Remy any of the family art nor did Stoke.Enesto took many long truck
rides to train a bit with Stoke

Jose is pictured With Ernesto in the Philippines teaching the Armed Forces.
Ernesto Got his Grand master Rank from the Bokbakahn--Not Remy!!!!!!
There is no family record to suport Remy to the Family art!
Ernesto Has been Recognised & teaching high Dignataries & photos to supor with Letters of Recomdation!!!

Tom et al,

GM Remy Presas studied Balintawak while as a teenager after he had left home on a fishing boot and ended up in Cebu City on Cebu.

GM Remy also trained in other systems behind his fathers back including training with his Grand Father. Which the last time I looked is still family.

As to GM Ernesto teaching, I think it is good. As to his Rank, I have no problem with his title as such and no one here has questioned it.

GM Ernesto uses the terminology of Kombaton now to avoid any issue with the differences between himself and his late brother.

Now back to Balintawak. Having trained in both and teach both, there are aspects of Balintawak in Modern Arnis, but they are different.

So I once again do not understand your point.

You make a claim. I and others think it is wrong, and you make it out that we are attacking someone. You are using misdirection to remove the heat form the claims you made to other people and other issues.

 

[monkey]

No Sir ;
i respect what your saying --I simply stated Remy did balintawak.
Remy claims to have learned from Bonco the Uncle or Grand father.
As claied in the Black belt interview.
I simply Stated The Grandfather is Stoke.
The father is Jose Presas y Bonco.
I have displayed this video to Mr Huubard & otheres on the board.
I will not stipulate Remys skill.
If you go the Monkey member in motion #40 post I have put the URL
Nationaly documented & has been know as such
Sicnce 1980.Ernesto is the Grandmaster & heir to ModernArnis- Mono y Mono- Arjuken-- Kombaton-- Internaltional Philippinoe Arnis Assoc.

Please go to the url I posted & see I have told the trueth of History.
& if you lke it or not & Im not bosting Just stating facts I am certified By REmy 1981 & by Ernesto 1987 & by both 1999.My ranks have been posted & now national post suport what I said is true,

I Im not putting down Remy --I love his inovations.I am just stating as you
asked to answer your questions"Here is your answere & see I have not
lied.

 

[modarnis]

No Sir ;
i respect what your saying --I simply stated Remy did balintawak.
Remy claims to have learned from Bonco the Uncle or Grand father.
As claied in the Black belt interview.
I simply Stated The Grandfather is Stoke.
The father is Jose Presas y Bonco.
I have displayed this video to Mr Huubard & otheres on the board.
I will not stipulate Remys skill.
If you go the Monkey member in motion #40 post I have put the URL
Nationaly documented & has been know as such
Sicnce 1980.Ernesto is the Grandmaster & heir to ModernArnis- Mono y Mono- Arjuken-- Kombaton-- Internaltional Philippinoe Arnis Assoc.

Please go to the url I posted & see I have told the trueth of History.
& if you lke it or not & Im not bosting Just stating facts I am certified By REmy 1981 & by Ernesto 1987 & by both 1999.My ranks have been posted & now national post suport what I said is true,

I Im not putting down Remy --I love his inovations.I am just stating as you
asked to answer your questions"Here is your answere & see I have not
lied.

Wait, here you say Ernesto is GM of Modern Arnis, an art widely known to have been created by Remy Presas. A couple of posts before this one you say:

>>>Ernesto Got his Grand master Rank from the Bokbakahn--Not Remy!!!!!!>>

Which is it. You can't seem to keep your stories straight. I call :bs1:

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

Monkey,

First off you do not know who Remy trained or did not train with. We only have what he told us and guess what, everyone here is going to believe what Remy said over you. I find it distasteful that you are trying to pick apart at the Founder of Modern Arnis after he has passed away. If you truly were his student of any merit then you would not be doing this. Sorry, but you need to understand that internet sources are generally weak on their history or slanted by the individual writing them. So the url that you have posted is just one persons take on Ernesto Presas and nothing more. In other words it does not prove a thing or your point. You will not be accepted by the Modern Arnis community with this tactic. Of course most of the community has written you off already!

Brian R. VanCise
www.instinctiveresponsetraining.com

 

[monkey]

I know what your saying but the post " is not 1 mans view". It states his Bio.
This is not a view-it clearly states the arts & his books which have suporting photos.
Look at it again --Im not Putting Remy down but you try to make it sound like I am. I simply stated the same Mr Parsons has.Remy did "balintawak in Cubu." This was not the family art.Jose is picuter with Ernesto & with The military & at veriuos dignateries as well.
Look again its a bio,You seem to take bios & info as name dropping or
just 1 mans word.
I stated it as well as Mr Parsons above .Go back in the post.
Remy did balintawak & other arts. The family art is Obinico Corto Kuntao.
Ernesto had the Modern Arnis in 1970.
He also had the arjuken- mono y mono- International Philippino Arnis Assoc.--Modern Arnis Assoc 1975 as my patch showed on my video.

Look back at the bio agian.Its not 1 mans veiw--It is a bio & has indepth
photos of esada y daga.

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

Actually as a bio it is one man's view or the person writing it.
Remy said he trained in his family art and that is good enough for myself and I believe everyone else in the Modern Arnis community.

Modern Arnis was founded by Remy Amador Presas and nobody else! That is the reality here. Ernesto is the Grandmaster of Kombaton, that is his art. If you are out to promote Ernesto then maybe you should do that in the Kombaton forum on FMATalk!

If you are interested in talking about technique and the exchange of technique post on that but this current tactic is definately on the wrong track.

I appreciate that you are trying to clean up your posts but you continue to post about stuff that you should probably steer clear of. It seems that you have many, many issues with other people and that is definately disturbing.

Brian R. VanCise
www.instinctiveresponsetraining.com

 

[monkey]

I know & understand what your saying--kambaton did not start till 2000!
He released the videos threw TC,Media & Remy was to Release
1-10 Arnis De Tranka & tapi tapi.
It was takes off the maket but if you wait a little more youll have the dvd showing My ranks-class photo when it was the Brothers as 1 art.I am in that pictue & it has been told agian on http:www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthred.php?t=8547&page=2&highlight=carnes this was seen by Mr Hubbard on 6-15-2006 at 10:52am

If I remember right Mr Hubard is a member of Ernesto & Kombaton did not start till around 2000.Also Mr Hubbard has the clips of Arnis de tranka to show what I stated was all true,

I never said Remy was not a Granmaster. I statd the sameas Mr Parsons & he dose not dispute Ernestos ranks. He document & had over 5 systems & one is Modern Arnis.This is a fact. Nothing more or less.It has been confirmed

Grandmaster Remy did balintawak & learned in Cubu.He actual had a little panandata - doce pares--arnis largo & serada.
Ernestos arts are there & copy writted & noted & stated.
a;so http://repub;ica.plmodernarnis/arnis/polish/represent/california.html

 

[monkey]

http:repulika.pl/modernarnis/mode...alifornia.html

that url should work.....

 

[monkey]

Sorry ofr any computor happinigs some how the url was not working..

Now it will http://republika.pl/modernarnis/mode..california.html


also so http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/sho...ghlight=carnes

there are 4 of the same but each show differant. These should help out with info.

 

[OnlyAnEgg]

Sorry ofr any computor happinigs some how the url was not working..

Now it will http://republika.pl/modernarnis/mode..california.html


also so http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/sho...ghlight=carnes

there are 4 of the same but each show differant. These should help out with info.

Monkeyman...these links don't work

 

[monkey]

This is odd there are lsited exactly on a past post.

Lets try this


Go to serch type in who is tom carnes

Now there will be a section on (Ok i give up who is tom carnes.) look for (page 5 ) of 8
& it should have black adder posting the thred url for the( 2nd one.)
holds the info needed to state what the thed is.Dont know why it wont go here.May be too old.
Now for the info on the other it just be low blackadder showing 4 post
all same yet differant address..(Its the 2nd one that stipulates the info you are required or looking for) go to page 2 post 16 dated 6-15-2006 10:52am

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

That was always my understanding as well. Remy had already founded and established Modern Arnis, then prior to his departure for the US, turned some degree of responsibility over to Ernesto. When Remy remained in the US, Ernesto was left to teach in the Philipinnes. After that, Ernesto developed his version of the art into Kombaton.

I have to second Rich's flag raising to the earlier post. Rocky is at least a dozen years senior to me, but our versions of history, from Professor's mouth seem consistent on this and other issues

I have to agree!

Brian R. VanCise
www.instinctiveresponsetraining.com

 

[Rich Parsons]

I know what your saying but the post " is not 1 mans view". It states his Bio.
This is not a view-it clearly states the arts & his books which have suporting photos.
Look at it again --Im not Putting Remy down but you try to make it sound like I am. I simply stated the same Mr Parsons has.Remy did "balintawak in Cubu." This was not the family art.Jose is picuter with Ernesto & with The military & at veriuos dignateries as well.
Look again its a bio,You seem to take bios & info as name dropping or
just 1 mans word.
I stated it as well as Mr Parsons above .Go back in the post.
Remy did balintawak & other arts. The family art is Obinico Corto Kuntao.
Ernesto had the Modern Arnis in 1970.
He also had the arjuken- mono y mono- International Philippino Arnis Assoc.--Modern Arnis Assoc 1975 as my patch showed on my video.

Look back at the bio agian.Its not 1 mans veiw--It is a bio & has indepth
photos of esada y daga.

Tom,

1) GM Remy did train with his Family his Grand Father.

2) As to Ernesto being the GM of Modern Arnis, I have no issue with the man and think he has tried to do his best for the art he teaches. As to his Rank being recognized by the PI association and the PI Governement it is best to study a little history. I have the following information from multiple sources including GM Remy himself and also Panong Guro Remy P Presas. "President" Marcos wanted to control Modern Arnis, and told GM Remy to promote some people in the Army to certain ranks to run his school teachings. Marcos wanted to use this as an indoctrination program with young people. The Police/Governmental Police showed up and took GM Remy's passport which was a special passport issued by the Government of the PI and told him not to go anywhere. He then got his personal passposrt and got on a plane for the USA. He left to avoid being killed for standing up to Marcos. Marcos understood politics and how to persuade people. I do not know the exact offer, but GM Ernesto took over after GM Remy left and all was "BLESSED" by Marcos' people. GM Ernesto played along, GM REMY told them to go away it was his system.

3) Modern Arnis is and always will be from GM Remy.

4) The family system stand alone may be found with GM Ernesto, but both Ernesto and Roberto were trained in Modern Arnis for teaching in the schools and other programs. They were influeneced by him as well.

5) By your arguements, since GM Remy did Balintawak he does not have the family art. I guess that means only you have huh? So I guess since you studied Serrada and also JKD you know longer have what you have learned elsewhere?

6) Stop quoting me to try to prove your points. Make your points on your own words with your own arguements. For as far as I know we disagree on everything so far.

 

[Brian Johns]

Mr. Monkey,

I haven't posted much lately due to a busy life but have been reading the posts by you and trying to decipher your claims.

I realize that you may have answered this already in one of your numerous posts. But, I have a simple question for you:

Have you taught Modern Arnis seminars in the past ?

Thank you,
Brian Johns
Columbus, Ohio