cutting punch

[guy b.]

You don't know that.

Can be seen from those pics

 

[guy b.]

That's not the reason.

Not sure why you are responding to a post for Nobody Important?

 

[guy b.]

I never saw him say that the triangle gets flattened to a line

Here:

To use urban slang, the wagina of the elbow will always come up to align the bones of the arm.

At high level it will be wrist at highest point and shoulder at lowest. At mid let all three will be same height and at low level shoulder will be highest and wrist at lowest.

"the wagina of the elbow will always come up" = flattening the triangle

"to align the bones of the arm" and "at mid let all three will be same height" = flattened to a line

He refers to the elbow being above the shoulder in a high strike, which I read as a strike to a target well above your own shoulder. That's a reasonable statement, assuming that target isn't very close

See that's the thing about discssing a system you don't understand; your assumptions are stupid.

So basically your and Juany's argument boils down to assuming we are fighting the tallest man in the world so that (you hope) elbow goes above shoulder (it doesn't).

Only NI messed that little bit of wriggle room up for you by also saying this about his "wing chun":

At mid let all three will be same height

i.e. he's punching with a straight arm. He's a pretend wing chun practitioner, just an internet troll. Why you spend time and effort trying to defend an obvious troll writing about a system he doesn't understand and that you don't either is beyond me.

 

[lansao]

Can be seen from those pics

Obviously not. Think feet.

 

[lansao]

Not sure why you are responding to a post for Nobody Important?

Let its contents guide you. An answer, by any other name, is just as sweet.

 

[guy b.]

No thanks

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Quote me please

Not worth the effort to find it again. It's somewhere around page 8, I think.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Here:

"the wagina of the elbow will always come up" = flattening the triangle

"to align the bones of the arm" and "at mid let all three will be same height" = flattened to a line

Aligning those bones means they align on the vertical plane. The statement about them being at the same height, as I read it, referred to a fully extended arm as the fullest example, rather than how they actually punch. I can see how that could be read the other way, as well.

[quoteSee that's the thing about discssing a system you don't understand; your assumptions are stupid.[/quote]
Or, you just don't understand the comments being made. Maybe "stupid" is an awfully strong word, so I'll just stop there.

So basically your and Juany's argument boils down to assuming we are fighting the tallest man in the world so that (you hope) elbow goes above shoulder (it doesn't).

Nope. I used a taller person as an example. I had a training partner who was 6' 8" (not even close to the tallest person I've ever trained with, much less the tallest person in the world). Punching to his chin, even from relatively close (which is well within common WC range), my elbow would reach my shoulder at the end of a punch. No hyperbole necessary to make that happen.

If you're going to call someone stupid, maybe don't follow that up by overstating an example (a strawman argument, by definition).

 

[Juany118]

Aligning those bones means they align on the vertical plane. The statement about them being at the same height, as I read it, referred to a fully extended arm as the fullest example, rather than how they actually punch. I can see how that could be read the other way, as well.

[quoteSee that's the thing about discssing a system you don't understand; your assumptions are stupid.

Or, you just don't understand the comments being made. Maybe "stupid" is an awfully strong word, so I'll just stop there.


Nope. I used a taller person as an example. I had a training partner who was 6' 8" (not even close to the tallest person I've ever trained with, much less the tallest person in the world). Punching to his chin, even from relatively close (which is well within common WC range), my elbow would reach my shoulder at the end of a punch. No hyperbole necessary to make that happen.

If you're going to call someone stupid, maybe don't follow that up by overstating an example (a strawman argument, by definition).[/QUOTE]
Exactly, again no one said "when we punch every joint ends perfectly aligned." The alignment comment was made, and clarified, to be simply a description of the biomechanics of the arm.

As for height, it's simply to address the "never happens" comment. You also don't need the person to be 6'8". The photo I uploaded shows a person below average height and a person only a couple inches above average height. I picked that photo because the two subjects on the side illustrate people of average height. I also said punching with that kind of alignment is not ideal but it can be necessary and as such saying "never ever" is simply wrong.

When you study a Martial Art you are supposed to be developing skills vs a technique or rote dance steps. Skills can adapt to changing or unusual circumstances (within limits of course) techniques or rote dance steps can't.

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk

 

[guy b.]

Aligning those bones means they align on the vertical plane. The statement about them being at the same height, as I read it, referred to a fully extended arm as the fullest example, rather than how they actually punch. I can see how that could be read the other way, as well.

Can't see how you would read it the way that you do:

"at mid level all three will be same height" means that NI is talking about punching with a fully straightened arm

Or, you just don't understand the comments being made. Maybe "stupid" is an awfully strong word, so I'll just stop there.

If you don't understand the range that VT punches operate at, you might think it is reasonable to accept that elbow will be above shoulder. This is the problem; you don't understand the system.

Punching to his chin, even from relatively close (which is well within common WC range), my elbow would reach my shoulder at the end of a punch. No hyperbole necessary to make that happen

If your elbow is higher than your shoulder, you are no longer bypassing the shoulder, and so not a VT punch. I am not the tallest person in the world and punching a 6' 8 person in the chin would not cause my elbow to be above shoulder. Maybe you have extremely short forearms or are below average height? Oh well

 

[guy b.]

Aligning those bones means they align on the vertical plane. The statement about them being at the same height, as I read it, referred to a fully extended arm as the fullest example, rather than how they actually punch. I can see how that could be read the other way, as well.

[quoteSee that's the thing about discssing a system you don't understand; your assumptions are stupid.
Or, you just don't understand the comments being made. Maybe "stupid" is an awfully strong word, so I'll just stop there.


Nope. I used a taller person as an example. I had a training partner who was 6' 8" (not even close to the tallest person I've ever trained with, much less the tallest person in the world). Punching to his chin, even from relatively close (which is well within common WC range), my elbow would reach my shoulder at the end of a punch. No hyperbole necessary to make that happen.

If you're going to call someone stupid, maybe don't follow that up by overstating an example (a strawman argument, by definition).

Or, you just don't understand the comments being made. Maybe "stupid" is an awfully strong word, so I'll just stop there.


Nope. I used a taller person as an example. I had a training partner who was 6' 8" (not even close to the tallest person I've ever trained with, much less the tallest person in the world). Punching to his chin, even from relatively close (which is well within common WC range), my elbow would reach my shoulder at the end of a punch. No hyperbole necessary to make that happen.

Exactly, again no one said "when we punch every joint ends perfectly aligned." The alignment comment was made, and clarified, to be simply a description of the biomechanics of the arm.

As for height, it's simply to address the "never happens" comment. You also don't need the person to be 6'8". The photo I uploaded shows a person below average height and a person only a couple inches above average height. I picked that photo because the two subjects on the side illustrate people of average height. I also said punching with that kind of alignment is not ideal but it can be necessary and as such saying "never ever" is simply wrong.

When you study a Martial Art you are supposed to be developing skills vs a technique or rote dance steps. Skills can adapt to changing or unusual circumstances (within limits of course) techniques or rote dance steps can't.

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk

Why is a reply from Juany's post in GP Seymours (earlier) post?

Looks a bit odd to me..

 

[guy b.]

no one said "when we punch every joint ends perfectly aligned."

Yes they did, here:

At mid level all three will be same height

If wrist, elbow and shoulder are all at the same height then the arm is straight and the triangle is flattened. It bears no resemblance to punching in wing chun. This is because NI doesn't do wing chun and is trolling the forum.

 

[lansao]

Yes they did, here:



If wrist, elbow and shoulder are all at the same height then the arm is straight and the triangle is flattened. It bears no resemblance to punching in wing chun. This is because NI doesn't do wing chun and is trolling the forum.

This need to maintain a triangle through extension of a punch does not define a Wing Chun punch, only a weak one. You misrepresent an art you don't understand. Go back to the drawing board with humility.

 

[Transk53]

Yes they did, here:



If wrist, elbow and shoulder are all at the same height then the arm is straight and the triangle is flattened. It bears no resemblance to punching in wing chun. This is because NI doesn't do wing chun and is trolling the forum.

I can tell from experience, Nodody Important has more substance than you. That is one big assertion to be polite. Of course I will have to be polite. Hope you can back that up. A deliberate slight like that should be evidence based!

 

[Gerry Seymour]

If your elbow is higher than your shoulder, you are no longer bypassing the shoulder, and so not a VT punch. I am not the tallest person in the world and punching a 6' 8 person in the chin would not cause my elbow to be above shoulder. Maybe you have extremely short forearms or are below average height? Oh well

Ah, so now you don't actually understand human mechanics? Interesting.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Why is a reply from Juany's post in GP Seymours (earlier) post?

Looks a bit odd to me..

Nothing odd. A double-quote, missing a quote tag.

A bit odd that you didn't catch that.

 

[Transk53]

Interesting.

 

[Juany118]

Nothing odd. A double-quote, missing a quote tag.

A bit odd that you didn't catch that.

Yeah, by the time I realized what happened I couldn't edit as the timer had run out.

 

[guy b.]

Ah, so now you don't actually understand human mechanics? Interesting.

I think much more likely that you don't understand VT and don't know what you are talking about

 

[guy b.]

This need to maintain a triangle through extension of a punch does not define a Wing Chun punch, only a weak one.

This may be the most back to front understanding of the VT punch i have had the pleasure to read. Quted for reference