cutting punch

[guy b]

Does anyone have any footage of this in use, whatever you call it?

 

[LFJ]

This first one is from Moy Yat lineage. Whenever I've seen people talking about "excluding" and "including" punches, this is what they're talking about.

I see no elbow idea in these either. It is just cutting with the forearm at an angle, or lifting on the inside. They aren't even close enough to land as a punch. They end up just being straight forearm blocks with a fist shape attached.

To land as a punch, the inside one will have to keep rising in order to continue wedging the opponent's arm out; like in the second video where he ends up punching to the guy's forehead or higher while flaring his elbow.

The outside one is probably impossible to land as a punch without muscling it through and by that point it will have wasted all it's power on the guy's arm anyway.

No elbow and no strategy to even make these halfway likely to succeed.

 

[guy b]

Excluding punch at 3.15 here

 

[guy b]

Ok so as far as I can tell from nobody important, the first two clips on this thread are not the gate punch or cutting punch due to technical inadequacy.

Also KPM's excluding punch is something different?

Is it possible for someone that does this kind of punch to post an example? For something that is Wing Chun 101 it seems very hard to pin down what you guys mean.

 

[LFJ]

Outer gate & inner gate punches.

Also wrist/hand-led, no awareness of elbow.

 

[guy b]

Outer gate & inner gate punches.

Also wrist/hand-led, no awareness of elbow.

Is this the punch you are describing NI?

 

[Nobody Important]

Outer gate & inner gate punches.

Also wrist/hand-led, no awareness of elbow.

Nice try but, sorry no. Gate punching in YCW WC isn't a forced technique. Also the elbow doesn't wander, body movement creates the angle.

 

[KPM]

Uh...James Yim Lee certainly wasn't the best example of Wing Chun.

 

[Nobody Important]

Uh...James Yim Lee certainly wasn't the best example of Wing Chun.

Poor attempt at a gotcha moment. They know exactly what we are talking about, but refuse to acknowledge it. They would rather find poor examples to try and rub in your face. Thing is the concept that James Yim Lee is trying to convey is gate punching, except the elbow shouldn't wander nor should you chase the arm to achieve it. It can also be done with other punches not just straight punch. But whatever, I've explained it enough.

 

[guy b]

Poor attempt at a gotcha moment. They know exactly what we are talking about, but refuse to acknowledge it. They would rather find poor examples to try and rub in your face. Thing is the concept that James Yim Lee is trying to convey is gate punching, except the elbow shouldn't wander nor should you chase the arm to achieve it. It can also be done with other punches not just straight punch. But whatever, I've explained it enough.

I have no idea what you mean by gate punching

So far gate punching was initially not what KPM was doing in his clip, then for some reason it was. If you yourself are unsure about what it is then I don't see why you would expect me to figure it out by guessing? KPM's clip was not representative of the elbow ideas in WSL VT

If you do want to talk about gate punching then please go ahead. If not then don't. No need to drama it up

 

[Nobody Important]

I have no idea what you mean by gate punching

So far gate punching was initially not what KPM was doing in his clip, then for some reason it was. If you yourself are unsure about what it is then I don't see why you would expect me to figure it out by guessing? KPM's clip was not representative of the elbow ideas in WSL VT

If you do want to talk about gate punching then please go ahead. If not then don't. No need to drama it up

Stop playing ignorant and trying to spin it. I've already said I didn't see it the first time, but then I rewatched the video. He performs the concept at 3:17, apparently you ignored that post. I've spoken at length about gate punching, I'm not going to repeat myself. Reread my posts or don't I don't care. PB does it, so either you're familiar with the concept (as LFJ expressed he is), you never learned it or you are lying. In any case I could care less. I've given the mice enough cheese for one day.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Outer gate & inner gate punches.

Also wrist/hand-led, no awareness of elbow.

I'm trying to follow this. What does "awareness of the elbow" mean? How can we see that in action?

 

[KPM]

I'm trying to follow this. What does "awareness of the elbow" mean? How can we see that in action?

You'll have to ask Guy. But don't expect a long explanation or a video to illustrate what he means.

 

[LFJ]

I've spoken at length about gate punching, I'm not going to repeat myself. Reread my posts or don't I don't care. PB does it, so either you're familiar with the concept (as LFJ expressed he is), you never learned it or you are lying.

I have expressed familiarity? I still haven't pinned down exactly what you're talking about. You have denied everything I've posted as being your gate punch. So, I don't know what else to do. If you could just post the PB video, that'd be great.

 

[LFJ]

I'm trying to follow this. What does "awareness of the elbow" mean? How can we see that in action?

We train elbow control in SNT. It never flares like this.

 

[LFJ]

Nice try but, sorry no. Gate punching in YCW WC isn't a forced technique. Also the elbow doesn't wander, body movement creates the angle.

So, the elbow is the same for inside or outside gate? How does it deal with the incoming punch obstructing the line? You just try to punch straight through it?

When the guy in the first video does this from the outside, he ends up muscling it and still not getting through. He's unable to get over the arm and it becomes more of a block than a punch.

From the inside, he is forced to change to a wedging technique to lift the arm up, like in the second video. Doing it the same as from the outside would get him hit.

It can also be done with other punches not just straight punch.

There's no attempt at a "gotcha moment". This last statement just complicates things further. If you could offer some visual of it, we could move forward with the discussion.

 

[Nobody Important]

I have expressed familiarity? I still haven't pinned down exactly what you're talking about. You have denied everything I've posted as being your gate punch. So, I don't know what else to do. If you could just post the PB video, that'd be great.

You discussed it in the conversation on the Wu Sau-Man Sau.

 

[Nobody Important]

So, the elbow is the same for inside or outside gate? How does it deal with the incoming punch obstructing the line? You just try to punch straight through it?

When the guy in the first video does this from the outside, he ends up muscling it and still not getting through. He's unable to get over the arm and it becomes more of a block than a punch.

From the inside, he is forced to change to a wedging technique to lift the arm up, like in the second video. Doing it the same as from the outside would get him hit.



There's no attempt at a "gotcha moment". This last statement just complicates things further. If you could offer some visual of it, we could move forward with the discussion.

Read my response on the other thread.

This is the problem with having the same conversation on multiple threads.

 

[LFJ]

Read my response on the other thread.

This is the problem with having the same conversation on multiple threads.

Took you long enough to get here. You could have come sooner.

You just described it. For the tenth time it's just a straight punch, elbow does not flare, body rotation allows for the angle that creates the wedge, strike is to center. It uses the concept of Lin Siu Dai Da via the punch itself. If it is above their forearm it is outer gate, below it is inner gate. Its the same concept as in the videos you presented. You asked if it was my gate punch I said no, because, they are:
1. Chasing the arm
2. Flaring elbows
3. Not rotating
Gate punching in YCW WC is not deliberate in the sense that you actively try to make it happen. There is no focus on attacking the arm to simultaneously punch the opponent, it is simply punch, if it happens it happens because of proper form and structure.

I find it hard to believe that you post pictures from a book written by Bruce Lee, who learned mostly from Wong Sheung Leung and claim not to know this basic punching method. Since it is a method employed by various Wing Chun branches, both Yip Man and Non-Yip Man, its logical to to assume this isn't a made up Bruce Lee thing. So that leaves the questions, did Bruce Lee learn it from Yip Man or Wong Sheung Leung? If from Yip Man why didn't Wong Sheung Leung learn it? If he learned it from Wong Sheung Leung why was Bruce the only one to learn it. Or is it more likely you simply call it by a different name?

What you explain doesn't contain any YMVT elbow idea. It is just rotating your body to create an angle, like in KPM's video. The elbow follows the wrist along an outside line in order to punch through the opponent's arm. How will this work from inside gate?

 

[LFJ]

I find it hard to believe that you post pictures from a book written by Bruce Lee, who learned mostly from Wong Sheung Leung and claim not to know this basic punching method. Since it is a method employed by various Wing Chun branches, both Yip Man and Non-Yip Man, its logical to to assume this isn't a made up Bruce Lee thing. So that leaves the questions, did Bruce Lee learn it from Yip Man or Wong Sheung Leung? If from Yip Man why didn't Wong Sheung Leung learn it? If he learned it from Wong Sheung Leung why was Bruce the only one to learn it. Or is it more likely you simply call it by a different name?

Sounds like a broken concept due to missing elbow ideas.