Conditioning for when you are in your 30s and 40s

[jobo]

If you can run at max heart rate for 30 minutes straight, then interval training is not going to help you. Show me someone who can run at max heart rate for that long, and I'll say he/she is the best runner of all time.

You're getting hung up on the 20 seconds thing. It was a STARTING POINT, as I clearly said. How about running at max heart rate for 60 sec, and at fat burn rate for 2 minutes, alternating for 30 minutes? Would that make you reconsider? Will that get the 20 sec hang up you have out of your head? Where did I say running at a high rate for 20 sec is better than at a high rate for 10 minutes? Interval training is better than running at a high rate for 10 minutes because you can go longer and spend more OVERALL time in a max heart rate zone if you're alternating high and low heart rates. Again, exercise physiology expert, I said 20 sec was a STARTING POINT. ADJUST THE TIME SO IT FITS YOU. How else can I make that clear.

There's so many studies done on interval training it's not even funny.

Here's a few professional journal links. Search interval training all you want...

American Society of Exercise Physiologists :: Journal of Professional Exercise Physiology

Exercise Physiology

ACSM | ACSM Journals

Here's a general information article written by the American College of Sports Medicine. They're a quite credible source...

The Basics of High-Intensity Interval Training

And I'm done. I almost forgot that you know everything and no one can tell you otherwise. Reading something and memorizing it isn't true intelligence. Actually understanding it and being able to apply it is.

no hang on there, you said any hiit was better at vo2max improvement than any longer steady cardio / running.

that was an absolute statement on your part. Now it seem you are not at all sure if that's true and are rattling on about heart rate.
was your statement true ,or not

 

[drop bear]

no hang on there, you said any hiit was better at vo2max improvement than any longer steady cardio / running.

that was an absolute statement on your part. Now it seem you are not at all sure if that's true and are rattling on about heart rate.
was your statement true ,or not

Sorta leans towards Hiit being slightly better than cardio at fat burning because of a whole bunch of science that I couldn't really care less about.

wade through that if you want.
Cardio vs HIIT vs Weights: Rebooting Our Research

Because if you exercise more than you did. And eat better than you did you will loose weight and gain fitness.

So hiit or cardio at 40 depends on what you can do more of pretty much.

Weight loss is not eating crap.

And surviving rounds is part fitness and part sensible fighting.

 

[jobo]

Sorta leans towards Hiit being slightly better than cardio at fat burning because of a whole bunch of science that I couldn't really care less about.

wade through that if you want.
Cardio vs HIIT vs Weights: Rebooting Our Research

Because if you exercise more than you did. And eat better than you did you will loose weight and gain fitness.

So hiit or cardio at 40 depends on what you can do more of pretty much.

Weight loss is not eating crap.

And surviving rounds is part fitness and part sensible fighting.

people make generalised sweeping statments, it better than slow jogging at many things, but that's not the point at issue we were not discussing vo2max not fat loss
if you want good cardio to say get you through a 4min round then nether jogging or hiit will give you that. Only doing 4 or more mins of intense cardio will prepare your body for that.

if you want to run a mile in 7mins, the only way to do that is to run a mile or more to build you your aerobic base.

you could make a case that supplimenting that training with hiit gives benefit, but that wasn't what he was say either. He was stating that it is superior and can replace such training altogether. And that is clearly a false hood and not supported by any studies. If you want 20 sec of flat out effort and who doesn't, then hiit is king

the hiit myth is running through fitness, with people opting to do a min of cardio in twenty second bursts and then claiming that's all they need

 

[JR 137]

no hang on there, you said any hiit was better at vo2max improvement than any longer steady cardio / running.

that was an absolute statement on your part. Now it seem you are not at all sure if that's true and are rattling on about heart rate.
was your statement true ,or not

You're right, and I'm wrong. It won't matter what I say, so leave it at that. Feel free to quote the first sentence here freely.

Your knowledge of exercise physiology, sports medicine, and physics, amongst other things is basically on the same level as people who watch YouTube and "do karate" without any formal training nor a teacher.

How did I get roped into your absurdity yet again? As entertaining as your "knowledge" and ability to read something and actually functionally understand it are, it's run its course for me. All good things must come to an end.

You're right, and I'm wrong.

 

[jobo]

You're right, and I'm wrong.



You're right, and I'm wrong.

there no need to be bitter about it,

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

You're right, and I'm wrong. It won't matter what I say, so leave it at that. Feel free to quote the first sentence here freely.

Your knowledge of exercise physiology, sports medicine, and physics, amongst other things is basically on the same level as people who watch YouTube and "do karate" without any formal training nor a teacher.

How did I get roped into your absurdity yet again? As entertaining as your "knowledge" and ability to read something and actually functionally understand it are, it's run its course for me. All good things must come to an end.

You're right, and I'm wrong.

My assumption is your responding to jobo? If so, that ignore feature is a very good way to avoid getting roped in to his absurdity.

 

[JR 137]

there no need to be bitter about it,

No bitterness at all

 

[JR 137]

My assumption is your responding to jobo? If so, that ignore feature is a very good way to avoid getting roped in to his absurdity.

He's too amusing to ignore

 

[thanson02]

There are those that can, and there are those that can't.
Can't.......never could and never will. So what's it going to be for you, kid? (Yeah, KID)

The competitive years for professional sports or professional fighting are probably past, but for fitness, conditioning, health, strength, heck, you haven't even reached your peak years yet. (You should think on that for a bit)

As for setting a good example for your child, the old "kid factor" - don't make it like a sport, or even like an exercise thing, make it like a brushing your teeth thing, or saying your prayers before bed thing, or cutting the lawn and taking out the trash thing. Make it as something "you just do". And if you ain't doing it, they won't either.

As for swimming, great exercise, but for losing weight - not unless you swim like a competitive swimmer. And that ain't happening.

What are you doing now for conditioning? Fess up, what did you do today? What did you do yesterday? What are you going to do tomorrow?

These days? I get an hour walk in every day with the kid and 3 times a week, I get a chance to review my forms after he has gone to sleep, but to be honest a lot of those days I am already worn out playing with him and chasing him around so it only ends up being around 30 minutes worth of light review. I guess it doesn't feel like much because before I became a dad, I was putting in 1 1/2 hours of intense training 3 nights a week (if I wasn't soaked with sweat and if my legs didn't feel like jello, I didn't get a good night in) with 1-2 days of lighter/review training. I was also getting a good night sleep every night.

I like the idea of the "it's like brushing your teeth" route. I talked to my wife about that and she agreed. Thanks for that.

As for the competitive element, I always saw tournament as a training tool. I have met a lot of folks who really get fired up when it comes to tournament fighting, they seem to live for it, but for me it was part of a larger package. I do know is that where I am at right now, my main focus is to get a deeper understanding of what I do and how it works. Maybe this whole thing is about me shifting gears anyways........

 

[jobo]

These days? I get an hour walk in every day with the kid and 3 times a week, I get a chance to review my forms after he has gone to sleep, but to be honest a lot of those days I am already worn out playing with him and chasing him around so it only ends up being around 30 minutes worth of light review. I guess it doesn't feel like much because before I became a dad, I was putting in 1 1/2 hours of intense training 3 nights a week (if I wasn't soaked with sweat and if my legs didn't feel like jello, I didn't get a good night in) with 1-2 days of lighter/review training. I was also getting a good night sleep every night.

I like the idea of the "it's like brushing your teeth" route. I talked to my wife about that and she agreed. Thanks for that.

As for the competitive element, I always saw tournament as a training tool. I have met a lot of folks who really get fired up when it comes to tournament fighting, they seem to live for it, but for me it was part of a larger package. I do know is that where I am at right now, my main focus is to get a deeper understanding of what I do and how it works. Maybe this whole thing is about me shifting gears anyways........

don't wish to stare the obvious, but if your child care is leaving you shattered, then it counts as exercise. The less obvious answer is that the low intensity child care exercise is using a different energy source than a more intense exercise session might. You have plenty of energy left, your body is lying to you

 

[thanson02]

don't wish to stare the obvious, but if your child care is leaving you shattered, then it counts as exercise. The less obvious answer is that the low intensity child care exercise is using a different energy source than a more intense exercise session might. You have plenty of energy left, your body is lying to you

Didn't think about that...............

 

[Gerry Seymour]

don't wish to stare the obvious, but if your child care is leaving you shattered, then it counts as exercise. The less obvious answer is that the low intensity child care exercise is using a different energy source than a more intense exercise session might. You have plenty of energy left, your body is lying to you

There are different energy systems, but he's likely drawing on the same energy system for both playing with the kid and a hard 90-minute workout. The shorter/faster energy system is typically more activated by shorter intervals of very high intensity.

 

[Buka]

These days? I get an hour walk in every day with the kid and 3 times a week, I get a chance to review my forms after he has gone to sleep, but to be honest a lot of those days I am already worn out playing with him and chasing him around so it only ends up being around 30 minutes worth of light review. I guess it doesn't feel like much because before I became a dad, I was putting in 1 1/2 hours of intense training 3 nights a week (if I wasn't soaked with sweat and if my legs didn't feel like jello, I didn't get a good night in) with 1-2 days of lighter/review training. I was also getting a good night sleep every night.

I like the idea of the "it's like brushing your teeth" route. I talked to my wife about that and she agreed. Thanks for that.

As for the competitive element, I always saw tournament as a training tool. I have met a lot of folks who really get fired up when it comes to tournament fighting, they seem to live for it, but for me it was part of a larger package. I do know is that where I am at right now, my main focus is to get a deeper understanding of what I do and how it works. Maybe this whole thing is about me shifting gears anyways........

You have a good attitude, bro, and that's a wonderful thing. Caring for a child is a ton of work, but think of the "I am already worn out playing with him and chasing him around" as physical work, which it is. It's not like you're sitting around eating doughnuts. You'll adjust to it, too, just takes some time. Sleep will be a thing of the past for a while, but this too shall pass. Just make sure you eat right, or at least as well as you can.

I suggest you don't compare what work you were doing before, with what you're doing now. Adapt, find a new something to do at home, even little things, like hand grips, quick sets of ten push ups, curling a hand weight while you're preparing baby formula, suck in your gut - trying to touch your belly button to your spine, hold it there for one minute while you go about your activities - it works your transverse abdominus. It works well over time. And it's hard. The little things add up over time. Honest.

And you are spot on correct - it is about you shifting gears. Go gettum', bro.

 

[thanson02]

There are different energy systems, but he's likely drawing on the same energy system for both playing with the kid and a hard 90-minute workout. The shorter/faster energy system is typically more activated by shorter intervals of very high intensity.

The one thing that you run into with the martial art community is when people talk about energy and energy systems, some people are very western and scientific in their approach and some very eastern and use Asian medicine terminology, or they use some blend of the two. Just curious which energy system approach your going with and what systems you are talking about for clarification purposes.

 

[jobo]

There are different energy systems, but he's likely drawing on the same energy system for both playing with the kid and a hard 90-minute workout. The shorter/faster energy system is typically more activated by shorter intervals of very high intensity.

the human body is capable of incredible feats of endurance, what most of us experience as tiredness, is just lethargy. The nervous system isn't co operating and giving false feed back to the brain
. There is a condition common in long distance running/ cycling etc called" hitting the wall" were your body no longer has enough glycogen left to run your brain and you fall over. Any thing much less than that and you have enough energy to do what you want, if you can master your nervous system.

the best way to over come lethargy, is to do something short duration,but extremely taxing, to get the blood flowing, wake your nervous system up and release some endorphins'
then you are good to go, even if he only does the short intense exercises he is gaining fitness, you can wreck yourself in 10 minutes if you try hard enough

I cant tell you the number of times I have gone to my work out felling like I dont have enough energy to even walk.

30 pull ups later I'm skipping about like a 20 year old

 

[Gerry Seymour]

The one thing that you run into with the martial art community is when people talk about energy and energy systems, some people are very western and scientific in their approach and some very eastern and use Asian medicine terminology, or they use some blend of the two. Just curious which energy system approach your going with and what systems you are talking about for clarification purposes.

Based on previous discussions with Jobo, I think he's referring to the physical (chemical) energy systems - how the body creates the energy needed from food. Short, intense activity uses one system (phosphagen system), while longer activity uses another (glycolytic system - either aerobic or anaerobic). There appears to be more crossover than that statement's simplicity suggests, but that's a good way to understand it.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

the human body is capable of incredible feats of endurance, what most of us experience as tiredness, is just lethargy. The nervous system isn't co operating and giving false feed back to the brain
. There is a condition common in long distance running/ cycling etc called" hitting the wall" were your body no longer has enough glycogen left to run your brain and you fall over. Any thing much less than that and you have enough energy to do what you want, if you can master your nervous system.

the best way to over come lethargy, is to do something short duration,but extremely taxing, to get the blood flowing, wake your nervous system up and release some endorphins'
then you are good to go, even if he only does the short intense exercises he is gaining fitness, you can wreck yourself in 10 minutes if you try hard enough

I cant tell you the number of times I have gone to my work out felling like I dont have enough energy to even walk.

30 pull ups later I'm skipping about like a 20 year old

Definitely agreed on those points, Jobo. I was just clarifying for the OP about the differing energy systems. Like you, I've often gone into workouts (both intense ones and soft ones) with low energy, and come out more awake and alert on the other side.

That 10-minute workout idea appears to work really well (for some people - I'll touch on that in a moment), especially if it involves interval training. There's some recent evidence that different people's bodies respond to different types of exercise - much more individually than was once thought. So, I might respond best to HIIT, and you might respond best to reasonably intense cardio. This frustrating lack of consistency between people probably explains why so many people who try to get more fit have trouble with it - dietary and exercise needs appear to be highly individual.

 

[thanson02]

Based on previous discussions with Jobo, I think he's referring to the physical (chemical) energy systems - how the body creates the energy needed from food. Short, intense activity uses one system (phosphagen system), while longer activity uses another (glycolytic system - either aerobic or anaerobic). There appears to be more crossover than that statement's simplicity suggests, but that's a good way to understand it.

I just wanted to make sure I was on the same page. Thanks for the clarification guys.

 

[jobo]

Based on previous discussions with Jobo, I think he's referring to the physical (chemical) energy systems - how the body creates the energy needed from food. Short, intense activity uses one system (phosphagen system), while longer activity uses another (glycolytic system - either aerobic or anaerobic). There appears to be more crossover than that statement's simplicity suggests, but that's a good way to understand it.

well yes and no, with only a vague understanding of chi , id make the simplistic comparison that Chinese culture has invisible energy lines running through the body that control strengh power pain thresh holds etc called chi and Western culture has invisible energy lines running through the body that control strengh power pain thresh holds etc called the nervous system. I view building my chi in the western view as building control of my nervous system to optimal performance

 

[Gerry Seymour]

well yes and no, with only a vague understanding of chi , id make the simplistic comparison that Chinese culture has invisible energy lines running through the body that control strengh power pain thresh holds etc called chi and Western culture has invisible energy lines running through the body that control strengh power pain thresh holds etc called the nervous system. I view building my chi in the western view as building control of my nervous system to optimal performance

That's an interesting view. I kind of like that concept. I've always viewed chi/ki from a physics/kinesiology perspective. All the "ki" work I've done seemed to work best when understood as a method of developing proper mechanics and eliminated what can interfere with those (so coordinating the breath is part of the latter).