Can a martial art kills?

[JowGaWolf]

If I get into a real street fight, I don’t think I want to kill or disable anyone.

This isn't as easy as it sounds. First you have to be able to hit the guy that you are fighting and there's no telling if the guy is more skilled than you are until punches are thrown. When you get into a real fight all of your ideas about how deadly you are "goes out of the window."

Think of it like this. How many martial arts "masters" and fairly skilled martial artist lose too MMA without landing that "deadly punch." If you are in a street fight and you are worried about your attacker's safety, then you are probably in a fight that you could have walked away from. When you are in a real fight where you are in danger then the last thing you'll worry about is the well being of your attacker.

I'm pretty sure almost all the martial artist here wouldn't worry about their attacker's safety if the attacker is mugging them in the street.

Don't get me wrong, your punches will get stronger, but in a fight you still have to land punches on your attacker and that's always easier than it sounds

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

I don’t think I want to kill or disable anyone.

Do you think that people spend years of "iron palm" training so they can scratch their opponent's back?

 

[drop bear]

This isn't as easy as it sounds. First you have to be able to hit the guy that you are fighting and there's no telling if the guy is more skilled than you are until punches are thrown. When you get into a real fight all of your ideas about how deadly you are "goes out of the window."

Think of it like this. How many martial arts "masters" and fairly skilled martial artist lose too MMA without landing that "deadly punch." If you are in a street fight and you are worried about your attacker's safety, then you are probably in a fight that you could have walked away from. When you are in a real fight where you are in danger then the last thing you'll worry about is the well being of your attacker.

I'm pretty sure almost all the martial artist here wouldn't worry about their attacker's safety if the attacker is mugging them in the street.

Don't get me wrong, your punches will get stronger, but in a fight you still have to land punches on your attacker and that's always easier than it sounds

You can still shut a guy down without really messing them up. You just have to be better than them.

 

[TigerHeart]

I was watching one documentary on YouTube. One school in Okinawa, they don’t want to kill or hurt anyone in self defense. In this Youtube, scroll to 33:15 and learn about Choshin Chibana.

 

[lklawson]

I was watching one documentary on YouTube. One school in Okinawa, they don’t want to kill or hurt anyone in self defense. In this Youtube, scroll to 33:15 and learn about Choshin Chibana.

Friend, you can stop worrying about it. It is your choice whether or not to try to injure someone, even if they're attacking you. You can choose to try or you can choose to not try.

You don't have to study Karate with the purpose of learning to hurt someone. You can practice martial arts for fun, fitness, meditation, enlightenment, historic research, or whatever else you want.

It's really that simple. You can stop obsessing.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[Paul_D]

If they attack you then that's their choice. You're legally allowed to defend yourself. Also punching a bag or doing a form is very different to a real fight

And fighting is very different from SD. Knowledge I see which continues to evade you.

Kill or be killed I know which I'd prefer

That represents a false choice. You can defend yourself without being killed, without killing them, and stay within the law.

 

[lklawson]

And fighting is very different from SD. Knowledge I see which continues to evade you.

Maybe. Maybe not. Both terms ("fighting" and "self defense") are far too nebulous and ill defined. Sometimes they're the same, depending on context and intent. Sometimes they're not the same.

That represents a false choice. You can defend yourself without being killed, without killing them, and stay within the law.

Maybe you can defend yourself without being killed or killing someone. I'd hope so, but there are far too many variables which you cannot control. The most common way for someone to die, in the U.S., from an "unarmed fist fight" is from a depressed skull fracture. One person gets knocked out/down and bashes their head on something hard, such as a concrete curb or sidewalk. Knock someone down, throw them with something like o goshi or o soto gari, evade and trip, or just push away and the other guy could potentially smash his head on a rock.

It's not always about stabbing him in the eye.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[JowGaWolf]

Friend, you can stop worrying about it. It is your choice whether or not to try to injure someone, even if they're attacking you. You can choose to try or you can choose to not try.

You don't have to study Karate with the purpose of learning to hurt someone. You can practice martial arts for fun, fitness, meditation, enlightenment, historic research, or whatever else you want.

It's really that simple. You can stop obsessing.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

I think people just assume that they take a martial art that they can easily hurt someone else and that's not the reality of martial arts. Just because someone knows a martial arts doesn't mean they can easily win a fight. Especially if non of the training that is being done is designed to make someone a better fighting. Even if it is designed to make someone be a better fighter, it's like you say. Its your choice of how much or how little you want to hurt someone, but that's only if you significantly more skilled than the person you are fighting.
.

 

[TigerHeart]

but that's only if you significantly more skilled than the person you are fighting.
.

Just wondering, the attacker is more likely to know martial art perhaps a black belt level. There is no chance to win a fight?

 

[Flying Crane]

Just wondering, the attacker is more likely to know martial art perhaps a black belt level. There is no chance to win a fight?

I do not believe that every schmuck out there looking to cause trouble is a highly skilled martial artist.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

Just wondering, the attacker is more likely to know martial art perhaps a black belt level

Statistically speaking, this is very unlikely. However, someone who attacks you in the street is more likely to have experience fighting than the average law-abiding citizen. That experience can make a difference.

There is no chance to win a fight?

Nah. Even if an attacker has martial arts experience, that doesn't make them unbeatable by a long shot.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

but in a fight you still have to land punches on your attacker and that's always easier than it sounds

I think you meant "harder than it sounds."

 

[Tony Dismukes]

Sometimes, I have mixed feelings when I practice karate. I was encouraged to punch hard and kick hard in a punching bag. I feel like I could break someone’s rib cage, break a arm or leg. If I get into a real street fight, I don’t think I want to kill or disable anyone.

As others have noted, death or severe injury is always a possibility in a fight. Someone could fall and hit their head on the curb. Someone could suffer a heart attack or an aneurism. Even just holding someone down could cause positional asphyxia. This is one part of why it's a good idea to avoid fights whenever possible.

That said, these outcomes are not particularly likely in the case of an unarmed fight. For every unarmed fight which results in a lethal outcome, there are probably thousands which produce nothing worse than bruises and cut lips.

Humans are actually pretty durable. If you have never fought full-contact, you may be surprised to find that it's a lot harder to break ribs or arms or legs than you think. (Especially legs.) It can be done, but don't assume that it will be easy based on your experience hitting the heavy bag.

You should also distinguish between killing, crippling/doing permanent damage, and disabling.

In an unarmed fight, lethal results generally happen either from a fluke accident (someone falling and hitting their head on the curb) or from deliberate excessive force (repeatedly stomping on someone's head while they are down, holding a choke after someone has passed out, etc). The same applies for most other forms of permanent injury.

Disabling someone (temporarily) is what you need to be able to do in order to reliably stop an attacker. Breaking an attacker's ribs will probably slow him down and might discourage him from fighting, but won't necessarily stop him. Breaking his arm will impair his ability to fight and will likely deter him from continuing, but not necessarily. Breaking his leg will probably stop him from being able to fight, but if it doesn't it will at least prevent him from being able to chase you if you run. Note that all these injuries will heal with time and proper medical care.

Some opponents will give up after getting a bruise or a bloody nose, but you can absolutely not count on that. In order to reliably stop someone you need to be able to
a) render them unconscious
b) cause sufficient structural damage that they are unable to fight effectively.
c) pin them so they can't move until help arrives (applicable only against a single attacker when you know backup is on the way)

 

[TigerHeart]

So, I have been confronted so many times by random people as a street photographer. I don’t think any of them has martial art skill. I’m not interesting in winning a fight or putting severe damaged on the attacker. What is the reality of martial art? Since my skill is not good enough for self defense, what is the point for me taking a martial art class?

 

[lklawson]

What is the reality of martial art? [...] what is the point for me taking a martial art class?

What do you want to get out of it?

Figure out your goals and work toward that. It's not that hard.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[JowGaWolf]

I think you meant "harder than it sounds."

lol.. yeah. that's what I mean. I haven't been getting enough sleep these days. My brain is all out of whack.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Just wondering, the attacker is more likely to know martial art perhaps a black belt level. There is no chance to win a fight?

I think it's very rare to have a martial artist of any system to be the initial attacker. The more skilled one becomes at fighting the less likely they'll be to initiate the fight. I'm thinking that the training changes the way they see fighting. When we look at violent crimes, we usually discover that the attacker is not someone who has been trained. Train soldiers don't go around shooting up everyone (there are a few exceptions), train boxers don't go around attacking people in the streets, trained karate black belts don't go around attacking people. I think the more highly skilled someone is in fighting, the less it becomes about fighting, even though that's what they are training.

Now as for your statement. In a hypothetical sense I think a person would be in trouble because the martial artist wouldn't give notice of the attack. I don't think there would be much of a stand off before punches started flying. I think the person would be like most attackers and try to attack you when you are least able to defend against the attack.

 

[JowGaWolf]

What is the reality of martial art? Since my skill is not good enough for self defense, what is the point for me taking a martial art class?

The reality of it martial arts is that it works based on why you train. For example, you have not interest in winning a fight or being able to severely hurt someone. Because of that you probably aren't training for the purpose of self-defense. As a result, your self-defense using martial arts is probably not going to be that great. Like
lklawson stated, "What do you want to get out of it?" Once you figure that out, then train for that purpose.

 

[TigerHeart]

My martial art instructors see me as hard working or potential. I think my point is if I develop a skill of breaking bones, I don't want to go out there and start hitting people because I can. It is like carrying a pistol and accidentally misfires.

 

[JowGaWolf]

My martial art instructors see me as hard working or potential. I think my point is if I develop a skill of breaking bones, I don't want to go out there and start hitting people because I can. It is like carrying a pistol and accidentally misfires.

No it's not like that at all. Accidental gun fire and misfires often happen outside of the context of being in a conflict or fight. No one sits down thinking that they better put their hands in their pocket so they don't accidentally bump into a person and break that person's bones.

If you are doing martial arts and you are using a technique that was made to break bone, then you made the conscious decision to break someone's bone or at the very least put someone in the position where you could break their bones. That's a choice that you made and there's no accident or misfire about it.

My personal opinion is that you think you are more deadlier than what you really are and the only way to fix that is for you to get in the ring and have your reality adjusted. I think it would greatly help you understand the reality of your skill level and understand that what you are talking about isn't as easy as you think it is.