Being Fit

[green meanie]

I think if there's any concern at all of being jumped and having to scramble for more than a minute or two you better be in some kind of shape. But even if that isn't a concern... take care of yourself. Your quality of life will be so much better if you do and that's important. 'Cause if you're gonna be here awhile you might as well enjoy it.

 

[eyebeams]

In my experience, a technical correction that consists exclusively of critiques of the strength you are using is worthless. Any critique of that sort is better served by saying something more detailed.

That said, it is both easy for strength to be mistaken for proper technique and for proper technique to be mistaken for strength.

 

[Connovar]

You need strength and technique in the combat systems. (unless of course you are in a zero gravity environment). Sports medicine and althletic training science's have all proven the value of both.Usually conditioning (usually a combination of stretching, cardiovascular and strength training) is begun before technique training is begun. It continues parallel with the skills training from then on. The conditioning allows greater time and effectiveness to be spent on skills training because of its abililty to extend stamina and reduce recovery time btw movements. It also reduce injury risk and promotes faster healing if injured. Generally if two people have the approx same skill the better conditioned athlete will win. In many situations skill alone cannot compensate for inferior levels of strength and conditioning. This is what the science says. Its now up to us to learn to apply it to our specific disciplines.

 

[Don Roley]

You need strength and technique in the combat systems.

I could introduce you to a bunch of little old men here in Japan that would make you revise that statement to only include 'technique.'

They only need enough strength to stand up and walk across the room. And yet they toss guys several times their size and decades younger than them across the room on a regular basis.

 

[Connovar]

I could introduce you to a bunch of little old men here in Japan that would make you revise that statement to only include 'technique.'

They only need enough strength to stand up and walk across the room. And yet they toss guys several times their size and decades younger than them across the room on a regular basis.

I would look forward to taking you up on that but I dont work in Japan anymore. However any of them have could have plenty of opportunities to go to a Pride or K1 event and show it to the world. Takamatsu used to do challenge matches, so it obviously isnt totally against tradition.

The scientific facts are as stated earlier. If you want to be the best athlete whether martial arts or other you need a good conditioning program which includes strengthening. Avoid it an you remain suboptimum.

 

[Grey Eyed Bandit]

"Even in Kashiwabara City (the small town in the mountains south of Kyoto and west of Iga where Takamatsu-sensei lived) there were wrestling matches with such famous wrestlers as Rikidozan (Western style pro wrestler famous in post WWII Japan) and others. Certainly professional wrestlers are in great shape, so if they really fought in a serious way, it would be difficult for a match to last very long. The reason they can fight for so long is that they are careful to avoid damage to vital spots. That is why they can have match after match from one day to the next. If they bite, they use their lower teeth to the forehead in order to draw lots of blood in a very visible way. When they stomp to the stomach, they coordinate it with an out breath. In professional wrestling, there are rules, and these rules are observed very carefully..." "
"If I had to fight Rikidozan, there is only one way for me to win. Of course, if he can hit me first with his karate, I would lose. So then what is my winning method? I would use both palms to his ears with a sharp strike. This is the ninja's happa-ken ("eight-leaves fist" sharp palm smack) strike. When I use this strike, it breaks both eardrums. Even a powerful man like Rikidozan would wind up with a concussion. If this happa-ken is used as a part of modern fighting arts, it will produce power as great as or even more fearsome than Rikidozan's karate."

- From the 1963 Tokyo Sports interview with Takamatsu sensei

 

[DWeidman]

I could introduce you to a bunch of little old men here in Japan that would make you revise that statement to only include 'technique.'

Can anyone think of a strategic advantage to being slower than your opponent?

Can anyone think of a strategic advantage to being faster than your opponent?

I suspect this will settle the issue...

-Daniel Weidman

 

[Cryozombie]

Can anyone think of a strategic advantage to being slower than your opponent?

Can anyone think of a strategic advantage to being faster than your opponent?

I suspect this will settle the issue...

-Daniel Weidman

Let me counterpoint that...

Can you be assured, thruought your life, from now until you are 100, that you will always be faster and stronger than anyone who attacks you?

Can you think of an advantage to training NOW as if you are not stronger and faster than your opponent?

 

[DWeidman]

Let me counterpoint that...

Can you be assured, thruought your life, from now until you are 100, that you will always be faster and stronger than anyone who attacks you?

No. Did I say anything about relying on nothing but speed and strength?

Can you think of an advantage to training NOW as if you are not stronger and faster than your opponent?

of course. Training for when you are 75 would prepare you for being 75.

Why, though, would someone who is 30 not take advantage of the fact that he is 30?

Would you honestly give up an advantage today just because you will lose it decades from now?

-Daniel Weidman

 

[Connovar]

The basic point is that good conditioning will make you better at essentially most athletic abilities. So if you do it at 75 or 25 you will be better off. As myself who is approaching geezerhood I watch research closely. As people get older the need for proper conditioning increases As we age we tend to weaken especially in the proximal limb muscles. (Your reference to old men who can hardly get out of their chairs is typical). Proper resistance trainng can reverse and slow the trend.

Regarding younger folks the strength conditioning makes you stronger and quicker.

So exercise like walking isnt enough. Swimmers, basketball players, boxers, gymnasts, etc extensively supplement their technique training with conditioning include strengthen to optimize their performance. Who doesnt want to be the best they can be?

 

[Don Roley]

Why, though, would someone who is 30 not take advantage of the fact that he is 30?

Would you honestly give up an advantage today just because you will lose it decades from now?

The problem is when you come to rely on that advantage and train accordingly. If you have it (strength) you use it. Thus you train as if you can expect it to always be there. When you get tired, or meet someone bigger and stronger than you, you are in deep kimchi.

This is why Nagato actually lost muscle mass. He says that he knew he was relying on his greater strength even though he didn't want to. So he lost a lot of weight and then had to learn to do everything at a very high level of skill to get things to work.

I have seen a lot of people who have a lot of muscle and few of them really get very good. They can pull things off that smaller people can't, not because of skill but because of their mass. They know no other way of moving. They never had to move any other way.

Until they reach age 60.

A friend of mine said that you had better start training now like you were 70 because hopefully someday you will. I like being fit, but I don't expect to be like this forever.

 

[Grey Eyed Bandit]

I don't know the exact Latin word for "knees", but "in the knees lies the truth". Ideally, as a budoka you'd want (flexible ) legs of steel, because as we all know taijutsu is about generating power with your lower body. I've seen so many times that both beginners and in black belt ranking people are stopped dead in their tracks when they encounter some sort of obstacle. Beginners tend to try to use the strength of their arms (of course) or start over again, whereas a lot of more experienced people will change technique and/or direction, often in a needlessly violent way. Now I'm not claiming innocence in either case, but sometimes I just want to scream in people's faces that it isn't me resisting, it's their legs not working enough for them.

Which naturally gets a bit awkward when you're training with relatively large people who can't bend their knees as much as others.:asian:

 

[Blotan Hunka]

Sounds like the perfect haven for out of shape people. I dont exercise to be a better martial artist.

 

[Cryozombie]

I agree with don. Im a physically big guy. Im not quite 6 feet tall mind you but I am broad, (in both the shoulders and the belly :erg: ) and In addition to my job (where I climb towers and stuff) I lift weights 4 days a week. Nothing major, mind you... im not going for a AHNOLD physique, just keeping up my strength for when I rock climb in the summers. But all that said, Im one of the biggest guys in our school... bulk for bulk.

As such, I can easily "beat" everyone with muscle, but they tend to out do me when it comes to technique... because they cant rely on muscle when they fight me. Its a lesson Im taking to heart...

Additionally... why dont I want to take advantage of it when I am 30?

Two weeks ago I fell off a second story roof, doing an install. I messed my knee up pretty good (for a minor injury)... and as a result, I can't use the leg quite right too much weight or bending the knee causes a LOT of pain... so I lost a lot of my speed and mobility... as well as some of the leverage I need for that "strength" to come into play. Its a whole different ballgame in training now... Im just hoping that as my injury continues to improve, I will retain the lessons I am learning about not relying on my size and strength to pull off my techniques.

Can you imagine, however, If I were attacked by someone of equal or even slightly lesser strength NOW and I needed to rely on that "muscle" to save my butt? I contemplated it. I really did. I'm glad that this happened tho, because the lesson that I will take out of it is PRICELESS.

 

[Kreth]

One way to check if you're muscling a technique is to apply it in super slow motion. This takes a lot of the snap and whip that comes from using muscle out of the equation, and forces you to have better position and angle.

 

[Connovar]

Two weeks ago I fell off a second story roof, doing an install. I messed my knee up pretty good (for a minor injury)... and as a result, I can't use the leg quite right too much weight or bending the knee causes a LOT of pain... so I lost a lot of my speed and mobility... as well as some of the leverage I need for that "strength" to come into play. Its a whole different ballgame in training now... Im just hoping that as my injury continues to improve, I will retain the lessons I am learning about not relying on my size and strength to pull off my techniques.

The use of legs, hips etc in taijitsu still utilize neuromuscular units. The better trained those units are the better you can do the technique. Also taijitsu uses a lot of core body strength rather than arms in order to maintain and hold posture while executing technique. This is not different than other martial skills. The best way to optimize strength is to add overload resistive exerecise such as wts., plyometrics etc.

Boxing (with probably only the exception of the speed jab)primarily uses the legs and hips to generate the power. The core muscles stabilize the trunk andthe limbs primarily only act as a transmitter of force.

BJJ origin is also from the ancient japanese arts. Its also primarily relies upon leverage, balance and timing. The use of hips is the crucial element in this art. The primary differences are application and training methods. The bjj practioner takes his opponent to the ground versus standing methods. Like taijitsu taijitsu most of the class is spent drilling and learining new technique. The primary difference is that approx one third of class time is finished with full speed full resistance sparring to hone the technique and test it.

As the quote from takamatsu above shows the skilled opponent against the stronger and skilled opponent is likely to lose. Dont make the dangerous assumption that Takamatsu made here. In a no rules fight, no one follows the rules. For example the striking technique he described is well known by grapplers and he would either have it used against himself and/or found it countered.

 

[Grey Eyed Bandit]

Funny that it's ok to draw analogies between Takamatsu and the validity of sparring/competition/pressure testing on one hand, while undermining his capabilities on the other.

 

[Connovar]

I am simply referencing his quote that the opponent he faced was stronger and obviously skilled. He admitted he would lose. His only recourse was to try a move well known to grapplers and also well defended by them. Grapplers are used to having the head grabbed or swung at etc. They protect it well. A common mistake strikers make against grapplers is to assume they can land a knockout blow when the grappler comes for a takedown. That doesnt happen because the grappler generally has his vital areas protected while moving in and the speed of his forward movement along with the level change makes it very difficult to strike accurately and powerfully.

 

[Grey Eyed Bandit]

I accidentally slapped a guy's ear once during a doubleleg he put on...he didn't want to spar anymore after that.

 

[Connovar]

I accidentally slapped a guy's ear once during a doubleleg he put on...he didn't want to spar anymore after that.

Yes, its a shame, there seem to be a lot of wimps out there. However they tend to be culled out by the sparring.