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Mon Mon
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How important is it for a martial artist to be in shape? Just Curious.
OP
Genin Andrew
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- #2
This question could be approached from many angles and viewpoints.Personally i believe being fit is important,i'm not the fittest guy in the world or anything but i do my bit to try and stay healthy.
Physical fitness is no more important than maintaining a healthy mind.After all the techniques you learn are no more than mere manifestations of the mind,you can have the greatest musles but without your brain and a healthy mind your techniques are useless.
People spend hours in the gym and running to increase physical fitness and strength and spend the same time in meditation to strengthen the mind,i am in no position to say which is more important but i believe an even balance is very necessary in your MA development.
much respect
-andrew
Physical fitness is no more important than maintaining a healthy mind.After all the techniques you learn are no more than mere manifestations of the mind,you can have the greatest musles but without your brain and a healthy mind your techniques are useless.
People spend hours in the gym and running to increase physical fitness and strength and spend the same time in meditation to strengthen the mind,i am in no position to say which is more important but i believe an even balance is very necessary in your MA development.
much respect
-andrew
Define "in shape." Round is a shape. 
Seriously, I do not think you have to be some sort of Greek god to do this art. Two of the six ninja the shogunate sent to Shimabara were in their 60s. If you can't do a technique at that age because everything relies on muscle, it is not worth studying. A friend of mine (non=Bujinkan) said that you should study as if you were 70 becasue hopefully you'll be that age someday and then what are you going to do?
Indeed, I have seen a few people plug holes in their technique by using muscle. If you have it, its great. But if you meet a bigger guy, or are tired, or get old, what do you have to fall back on? I have heard that Nagato lost a lot of his old muscle mass on purpose because he felt he was relying to much on it instead of good taijutsu. He also wanted to build up more endurance muscles rather than the snap type he used as a kick-boxing champ.
But on the other hand, I was talking with some guys visiting Japan a while back and the subject of a certain member of the Bujinkan came up. (Note- he is not registered here at Martialtalk.) The guys brought up the point, "how the heck can you call yourself a martial artist when you look like the Staypuff Marshmellow Man?"
We practice this art to avoid violent deaths and live long, fullfilling lives. So why are there so many martial artists that look like they are a decade away from triple bypass surgery? I have seen guys come into class that are just plain fat, and then they sit down and start munching on potatoe chips, chocolate cake bars and such while waiting for the teacher.
Staying within a healthy weight is not a matter of some secret technique. You just put the damn Twinkies down. You take walks and use the stairs from time to time instead of the elevator. You use more calories than you consume. Even if it takes a long time, you can get to a healthy weight.
My mother in law has to check her insulin levels now, and she has never been what I would call fat. There are so many health hazards that can be avoided if we just watch what we eat. It is silly to do pushups and learn things like how to snap necks on the excuse that we need to do so in order to survive to a ripe old age and then not even bother to check our cholesteral levels at least once a year.
Seriously, I do not think you have to be some sort of Greek god to do this art. Two of the six ninja the shogunate sent to Shimabara were in their 60s. If you can't do a technique at that age because everything relies on muscle, it is not worth studying. A friend of mine (non=Bujinkan) said that you should study as if you were 70 becasue hopefully you'll be that age someday and then what are you going to do?
Indeed, I have seen a few people plug holes in their technique by using muscle. If you have it, its great. But if you meet a bigger guy, or are tired, or get old, what do you have to fall back on? I have heard that Nagato lost a lot of his old muscle mass on purpose because he felt he was relying to much on it instead of good taijutsu. He also wanted to build up more endurance muscles rather than the snap type he used as a kick-boxing champ.
But on the other hand, I was talking with some guys visiting Japan a while back and the subject of a certain member of the Bujinkan came up. (Note- he is not registered here at Martialtalk.) The guys brought up the point, "how the heck can you call yourself a martial artist when you look like the Staypuff Marshmellow Man?"
We practice this art to avoid violent deaths and live long, fullfilling lives. So why are there so many martial artists that look like they are a decade away from triple bypass surgery? I have seen guys come into class that are just plain fat, and then they sit down and start munching on potatoe chips, chocolate cake bars and such while waiting for the teacher.
Staying within a healthy weight is not a matter of some secret technique. You just put the damn Twinkies down. You take walks and use the stairs from time to time instead of the elevator. You use more calories than you consume. Even if it takes a long time, you can get to a healthy weight.
My mother in law has to check her insulin levels now, and she has never been what I would call fat. There are so many health hazards that can be avoided if we just watch what we eat. It is silly to do pushups and learn things like how to snap necks on the excuse that we need to do so in order to survive to a ripe old age and then not even bother to check our cholesteral levels at least once a year.
Enson
3rd Black Belt
i agree with don. also all that talk of twinkies is getting me hungry. i believe that one needs to be strong and healthy to present himself as a good martial artist. although there does need to be balance and happiness in your life. you should read a "purpose driven life" rick warren for references on balance. you might have to take a guy down that is alot bigger than you and realistlcly speaking sometimes you won't be able to do anything because he out weighs you by 200 lbs. anyway apart from that it would be better to do pushups then eat ice cream.
peace
peace
r.severe
Blue Belt
Different points...
I believe Nagato sensei 'was' a kickboxing guy.... many many many years ago..say 20 or more years ago... People bring this up like he trains when he was younger.... he doesn't from my conversations with him. He told me he was married and had to many kids to train like he use to when he was much younger. Maybe this was a reason why.. in fact.. he doesn't look the way he did 20 years ago.. and lost his muscle... and moves very stiff in his hip area. Changes in his training over the years. That should be a consideration when bringing up men or women... their living conditions and how they view fitness or being in shape.
WE all have a choice.. choices have consequences................... this is the base for sanmitsu.
ralph severe, kamiyama
I believe Nagato sensei 'was' a kickboxing guy.... many many many years ago..say 20 or more years ago... People bring this up like he trains when he was younger.... he doesn't from my conversations with him. He told me he was married and had to many kids to train like he use to when he was much younger. Maybe this was a reason why.. in fact.. he doesn't look the way he did 20 years ago.. and lost his muscle... and moves very stiff in his hip area. Changes in his training over the years. That should be a consideration when bringing up men or women... their living conditions and how they view fitness or being in shape.
WE all have a choice.. choices have consequences................... this is the base for sanmitsu.
ralph severe, kamiyama
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On this subject, has anyone read "The Care and Feeding of a Martial Artist" series of books that Dick Severence sells on his website?
Ive been considering purchasing them, and was curious if they were good books?
Ive been considering purchasing them, and was curious if they were good books?
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r.severe said:
Ralph,
What is Sanmitsu?
OP
Elizium
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- Thread Starter
- #9
Well me for one, is 5 stone overweight, bad knee(s), get bad back pain every once in a while, has not much muscle and so on. I do taijutsu. I am fit. My blood pressure is normal for my weitght and size. Do not ask me for my BMI as I have no idea. And my mom is a type 2 diabetic, so I watch what I eat to assist her in her diet. Away and it is king size swiss rolls or large kebab. Yummy!
But I walk sometimes to the dojo, which is 8 miles or so away from my house. Or walk into town and/or back. Have an ab trainer and a total body fitness gym (at moment gathering dust).
But as long as you are able to breathe, do the technique and walk out alive, you will be able to do taijutsu.
But I walk sometimes to the dojo, which is 8 miles or so away from my house. Or walk into town and/or back. Have an ab trainer and a total body fitness gym (at moment gathering dust).
But as long as you are able to breathe, do the technique and walk out alive, you will be able to do taijutsu.
bobster_ice
Black Belt
im onli 14 but ive been doing MA for 10 years, fitness isnt reli important to me, all i care about is strength, speed and stamina, fitness would come last for me as i dont need it
Shirt Ripper
Black Belt
Bobster, how would you define fitness? Just curious.
bobster_ice said:
What else is there to fitness?
Personally for me fitness is important. You really do not need
to have tremendous fitness to be able to perform a technique.
However, if you are tired, run down, been running, or just
generally out of gas some level of fitness may help you in a
moment of action. Really, you have to be fit enough to perform
the technique or techniques you are attempting to apply.
This does not mean using excessive strength or trying to muscle
through something but it does mean that you need to be fit enough
to move your body appropriately. If you are so gassed or unfit that
in the moment of conflict you cannot execute anything even a
simple movement such as moving your body out of the way then
you have a serious problem. If you have ever watched a basketball
game and watched one team wear another down so much that the
worn down team is holding onto their shorts to rest, you get the
picture. The fresher team just drives right by them and gets an
easy shot. Fitness is just one more thing that can aid you in a
violent confrontation.
Brian R. VanCise
www.instinctiveresponsetraining.com
to have tremendous fitness to be able to perform a technique.
However, if you are tired, run down, been running, or just
generally out of gas some level of fitness may help you in a
moment of action. Really, you have to be fit enough to perform
the technique or techniques you are attempting to apply.
This does not mean using excessive strength or trying to muscle
through something but it does mean that you need to be fit enough
to move your body appropriately. If you are so gassed or unfit that
in the moment of conflict you cannot execute anything even a
simple movement such as moving your body out of the way then
you have a serious problem. If you have ever watched a basketball
game and watched one team wear another down so much that the
worn down team is holding onto their shorts to rest, you get the
picture. The fresher team just drives right by them and gets an
easy shot. Fitness is just one more thing that can aid you in a
violent confrontation.
Brian R. VanCise
www.instinctiveresponsetraining.com
Shogun
Master Black Belt
i
Maybe he meant "Nutrition" or "flexibility". If thats the case, I believe the opposite. Nutrition and flexibility (and proper breathing) are far more important than strength and speed. I kinda view the latter as External fitness, and Nutrition and breathing(correlated with stamina) as internal fitness. and the external stuff gets harder and harder to use as you get older. an example of this is UFC fighter Randy Couture. Couture is 42 years old, and one of the best in the world. He attributes his skills to a very specialized workout routine. The routine includes basic workouts like weight lifting and running, but becomes very focused on a Phytonutrient diet, and flexibility and tendon training. These things make his technique incredibly strong, even though he lifts weights half as much as people half his age.
Maybe he meant "Nutrition" or "flexibility". If thats the case, I believe the opposite. Nutrition and flexibility (and proper breathing) are far more important than strength and speed. I kinda view the latter as External fitness, and Nutrition and breathing(correlated with stamina) as internal fitness. and the external stuff gets harder and harder to use as you get older. an example of this is UFC fighter Randy Couture. Couture is 42 years old, and one of the best in the world. He attributes his skills to a very specialized workout routine. The routine includes basic workouts like weight lifting and running, but becomes very focused on a Phytonutrient diet, and flexibility and tendon training. These things make his technique incredibly strong, even though he lifts weights half as much as people half his age.
Shinkengata
Green Belt
Fitness is decently important to me, i guess. I don't have time to engage in an y real exercise, but i walk 4-8 miles a night with my job, so i guess i do alright. I find it incredibly hard to gain weight, so there is no real problem there. My cardiovascular endurance is quite pitiful despite my physical shape, dimensions, and my age, but that comes from lack of cardio exercise, a half-pack a day smoking habit and working in an environment where there is cigarette smoke in the air constantly.
Plus i REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY hate jogging or running of any kind.
Plus i REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY hate jogging or running of any kind.
The most recent medical evidence is that exercise needs is more important than wt loss when discussing health. Being fit reduces the morbidity and mortality associated with elevated cholosterol, diabetes or hypertension. Go for fitness first and the wt loss with appropriate diet will follow.
Walking in general is not good enough unless you are very elderly or are doing olympic style race walking. Cardiovascular fitness require a minimum of 20 minutes with your heart rate maintained within 60 to 85 percent of your age adjusted max heart rate. Your max heart rate is generally calculated as 220- your age.
Strength training is also very important especially as you age as your will continually lose muscle mass if not working the muscles. Age especially effects the body core muscle and proximal limb muscles. These muscle are important to able to do routine daily tasks and also will reduce your risk of significant back problems.
Finally flexibility is important to maintain as the body also loses it as one gets older.
Exercise science just like many other fields continues to develop and advance. Dont make the mistake of following outdated concepts and practices to maintain your health even if they are traditional.
Walking in general is not good enough unless you are very elderly or are doing olympic style race walking. Cardiovascular fitness require a minimum of 20 minutes with your heart rate maintained within 60 to 85 percent of your age adjusted max heart rate. Your max heart rate is generally calculated as 220- your age.
Strength training is also very important especially as you age as your will continually lose muscle mass if not working the muscles. Age especially effects the body core muscle and proximal limb muscles. These muscle are important to able to do routine daily tasks and also will reduce your risk of significant back problems.
Finally flexibility is important to maintain as the body also loses it as one gets older.
Exercise science just like many other fields continues to develop and advance. Dont make the mistake of following outdated concepts and practices to maintain your health even if they are traditional.
I've heard you can do pretty well with walking, if you're sedentary to start with...it's a good way to begin. But yes, it doesn't get the heart rate up as much as is desirable!
I have just finished reading "'Secrets' of Effective Offense" by Marc MacYoung and I have to wonder out loud if strength is something we should try to avoid.
What he said mirrors a lot of what I have seen. People tend to do something and judge it good if it ends in the desired result. The other guy hits the ground, you pat yourself on the back and stop thinking about it.
But guys that have muscle sometimes rely on that during training without being aware of it. It works great when you are young, fit and rested. But if you loose your strength, meet a biiger guy or are tired, you can't rely on that strength being there. As you train, thus shall you fight.
Take a look at the Japanese shihan. People talk about how Nagato is a big guy. But he is almost tiny compared to a lot of the non-Japanese. Yet all of them, no matter how old and tiny, are able to twist us into shapes God never intended us to take. Obviously, they never had to rely on strength. One of Hatsumi's original students once told me that the years he spent with a condition that sapped his strenght is what made him the great artist he is today. Without the strength of his youth, he had to move in such a way as to not need it.
I would love to have strength and not need it. But I am wondering if by building up muscle I will end up relying on it without being conscious of what I am doing. I have seen that in others, I don't doubt it can happen to me as well.
What he said mirrors a lot of what I have seen. People tend to do something and judge it good if it ends in the desired result. The other guy hits the ground, you pat yourself on the back and stop thinking about it.
But guys that have muscle sometimes rely on that during training without being aware of it. It works great when you are young, fit and rested. But if you loose your strength, meet a biiger guy or are tired, you can't rely on that strength being there. As you train, thus shall you fight.
Take a look at the Japanese shihan. People talk about how Nagato is a big guy. But he is almost tiny compared to a lot of the non-Japanese. Yet all of them, no matter how old and tiny, are able to twist us into shapes God never intended us to take. Obviously, they never had to rely on strength. One of Hatsumi's original students once told me that the years he spent with a condition that sapped his strenght is what made him the great artist he is today. Without the strength of his youth, he had to move in such a way as to not need it.
I would love to have strength and not need it. But I am wondering if by building up muscle I will end up relying on it without being conscious of what I am doing. I have seen that in others, I don't doubt it can happen to me as well.
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Mon Mon said:
If you are in good shape, your timing and reflexes are better. I'm not very large and I have to do some sort of strenght training to compensate. True, perfect technique would do that as well (and as others have pointed out, an over-reliance on strength is a real long-term minus), but I have a lot of interests besides MA...
