Is a Martial art "title" necessary?

[Shogun]

This may be irrelevant, but I'm curious how others view this.

Say someone holds a 1st degree black belt is Hapkido, a Shodan in Ninjutsu, and/or a shodan in Karate. or any black belt in any art, really. They start a training group, teaching what they know, but dont really call it anything. or maybe they call in "Yamakawa ryu Budo" or something. what is thought on this? this is completely random, just wondering. Keep in mind the teacher isnt self promoting, making up a new art, or anything like that. they are just teaching a composite MA, or an eclectic MA w/o a name, or a temp. name.

 

[loki09789]

This may be irrelevant, but I'm curious how others view this.

Say someone holds a 1st degree black belt is Hapkido, a Shodan in Ninjutsu, and/or a shodan in Karate. or any black belt in any art, really. They start a training group, teaching what they know, but dont really call it anything. or maybe they call in "Yamakawa ryu Budo" or something. what is thought on this? this is completely random, just wondering. Keep in mind the teacher isnt self promoting, making up a new art, or anything like that. they are just teaching a composite MA, or an eclectic MA w/o a name, or a temp. name.

Every martial art system is an ecclectic that has gained a reputation and a following over time. No martial art came from nothing. The originator was really a synthesiser: bringing together stuff he knew with stuff that he either decided needed to be added or got from some other place.

Does the instructor conduct himself well and is the training group a positive place to be? When you practice is it aligned to your goals? If so screw names and titles. GM Remy Presas just called his synthesis of his martial training from various arts "Modern Arnis." It gave him the freedom to adapt/adopt from anywhere with out being locked into a 'one way' thing. Unfortunately, the terminology and curriculum were never really made solid enough for the establishment of a continuity of training, but students all knew Modern Arnis.

Train well, if it feels right, and works for you go for it. THe rest is ego battle.

 

[Dale Seago]

Paul is right in that no martial art "developed in a vacuum". Lots of borrowing went on, if only from the standpoint of learning something about other systems in your area so that your people could counter their methods. (You can probably sense the "but. . ." coming, right? )

But. . .

Originally these things were matters of life and death: People had to know what worked, and why, before even thinking seriously about incorporating some new innovation.

If you take Shogun's original hypothesis of someone with only a very basic understanding (e.g., 1st dan level) of three different arts and trying to syncretize them into something coherent, I wouldn't hold out much hope for that nameless art. There would be "gaps" or "holes" in it that its creator wouldn't even be able to perceive; and in fact I've seen exactly this happen before. Not only are they unlikely to genuinely "fit" together in a complementary way, but the instructor would also be bringing in and incorporating -- and compounding -- all the inadequacies and vulnerabilities of his lack of deep understanding of each of the "parent" arts.

Now, on the other hand, if you took someone who was a "master"-level teacher (by whatever criteria you want to define "mastery") of each of several arts, you might really have something. This person would be able to see what elements appear to have "rough edges" when bumping up against each other and be able to find ways to turn them all into a seamless whole.

Someone like my teacher, Masaaki Hatsumi, or his teacher, Toshitsugu Takamatsu, for example. :wink2:

 

[Enson]

its funny how some consider a black belt as a state of arrival. don't get me wrong a black belt is something to be proud of and maybe one day i might a get another stripe on my white belt! hee hee! (joke) as far as titles go for a style... i think people like to know that they are a part of something. an association of some sort. heck, why would they join clubs like the elk, eagle, maad, lions, etc. so is a title necessary? no if you only care about self defense and protection. and yes if you want to be a part of and contribute to something greater than yourself. i hope i just made sense. hee hee!

peace

 

[Shogun]

A quicker way of phrasing the question is probably, If someone has a basic understanding of several martial arts, and he/she teaches those arts, is it necessary to have a name on that MA they are teaching? what if they name the art, but make it understood what they are teaching? again, this is 100% random. it just crossed my mind, and I was curious...

 

[Don Roley]

A quicker way of phrasing the question is probably, If someone has a basic understanding of several martial arts, and he/she teaches those arts, is it necessary to have a name on that MA they are teaching?

It depends....

But I would put it like this. If someone studies ninjutsu, jujutsu and tai chi then they should not call it ninjutsu, jujutsu or tai chi. What they created has things that is not found in tai chi, or jujutsu, etc. Thus they should come up with a new name for their new outlook on what they do and distance themselves from the base in terms of name.

You see this with what Ueshiba and Kano did with naming their arts instead of keeping their old names. You can see this with how Steve Hayes calls what he does Toshindo instead of ninjutsu.

I have a friend that did the whole JKD type of experience while living an... interesting life. (Just like the Chinese curse...) He married a wonderfull woman who taught another art than what he had experience in. She brought him in to teach things he had learned from his experiences on the street and in other arts to fill in any blind spots she could not see. They eventually asked me to come up with a name for what they did. I gave them the title in Japanese for what they wanted. So was born the art of Dango Jiru. The guy is an imp and loves to let people know what the impressive sounding name actually means in Japanese.

Leftover Stew.

Yep. Just as people start to nod their heads with the exotic sounding name, he lets loose with the secret that they named their art after the creation you make when you throw everything you can find into a bowl and hope it comes out edible. No plan from the start, just play it by ear as you go along and hope for the best. I wish I could see some of these people's faces as he shows them just how little seriousness he puts into titles and such. because of his skill and experiences, a lot of people come to him like they do a god that they only have to bow down to in order to get better. He probably stops a lot of that behavior right there.

And Dango Jiru does not have to fit any kind of mold that they don't want it to have. They can take things from aikido and leave out the parts they don't feel right about teaching. An aikido teacher may blanch at the fact they may not teach Ikkyo if they called their art an aikido style. What kind of aikidoka does not know Ikkyo? But since it is not aikido, it is Dango Jiru, they don't have to worry about playing off of anyone else's sheet of music.

 

[Don Roley]

Some of my thoughts on starting a martial arts style and what you should have before you do so.

http://www.e-budo.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?postid=181632#post181632

Short version, are you over 50?

 

[tmanifold]

It really depends on what they are claiming to do. I have experience in varying degrees from say 10 styles (for example). The experience ranges from a few things I picked up at some seminars to a serious, and in depth understanding of the art. Let's say that regardless of my level of understanding, I don't have teaching credentials in any of them, for what ever reason (e.g. informal instruction). For the purposes of the arguement we will use the examples of Sambo, Judo and catch wrestling. I would be wrong to claim to teach Sambo as I have no credentials in that art. The same could go for Judo as it applies to Kodokan Judo but judo is also a description even though it generally applies to Kano's art. Catch wrestling is a harder one to pin down because there is no set credentials to have. Yet I could teach Submssion grappling and be completely within the bounds of honesty and good ethics. I could also claim to teach Jujutsu is I wanted to practice in a more traditional manner as Jujutsu is nothing more than a description like "grappling".

The litmus test for me is whether or not the person claims to teach something he has no right to claim. The merits of the system in question are one thing but ethically as long as the person in question does not act in a fruadulant manner then I am fine with it. In my mind making yourself a 10th dan soke is fruadulant because I don't believe you can award your self a rank. If you found an art you are the founder not a 10th dan.

Tony

 

[Dale Seago]

In my mind making yourself a 10th dan soke is fruadulant because I don't believe you can award your self a rank. If you found an art you are the founder not a 10th dan.

Tony

Hi, Tony, how've you been?

That's a true statement above. Hatsumi sensei for example, as Soke of nine ryu and head of the Bujinkan organization, has no dan rank whatsoever in the Bujinkan. Rather, all Booj ranks emanate from him and he can do as he pleases with them.

 

[Baoquan]

I have a friend that did the whole JKD type of experience while living an... interesting life. (Just like the Chinese curse...) He married a wonderfull woman who taught another art than what he had experience in. She brought him in to teach things he had learned from his experiences on the street and in other arts to fill in any blind spots she could not see. They eventually asked me to come up with a name for what they did. I gave them the title in Japanese for what they wanted. So was born the art of Dango Jiru. The guy is an imp and loves to let people know what the impressive sounding name actually means in Japanese.

Leftover Stew.

Don,

would that friend with the interesting life who teaches *leftover stew* be Animal MacYoung??

Either way, mucho hilarious..... :uhyeah:

 

[Don Roley]

would that friend with the interesting life who teaches *leftover stew* be Animal MacYoung??

Right on the first guess!

Last I heard, he was trying to figure out a way to sneak a whoopy cushion into his casket when he dies.
:supcool:

 

[Sarah]

Could do what my Instructor did and call his school 'Incorporated Martial Arts'

 

[Cryozombie]

Im going to create my own style and call it:

"Kowa Innakona" (Get it, cower in a corner?)

Haha. Ill be happy to get good at what I do, as opposed to trying to make what I do better.

 

[Sarah]

Im going to create my own style and call it:

"Kowa Innakona" (Get it, cower in a corner?)

Haha. Ill be happy to get good at what I do, as opposed to trying to make what I do better.

thats good!!

 

[tmanifold]

Hi, Tony, how've you been?

I have been good. When are you coming up here next? I got a bottle of scotch with your name on it.

Tony