Baguazhang

Discussion in 'The Great Debate' started by Zenjael, Mar 7, 2012.

  1. Zenjael

    Zenjael Purple Belt

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    I was curious as to why there are so few practitioners of this style, as it seems to me must be the case since I haven't seen many other posters who appear to practice the style. I was surprised upon joining the forum that there wasn't a separate section for practitioners.

    Any thoughts? For it has left me at a pause.
     
  2. Xue Sheng

    Xue Sheng All weight is underside

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    Try EF or RSF both heavy on Baguazhang guys but still no seperate section it is with Xingyiquan and Taijiquan. MT is more of an MA cross section but I do feel that is has fewer CMA people and fewer yet ICMA people as compared to the other styles that are here.
     
  3. Jason Striker II

    Jason Striker II Blue Belt

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    It's a difficult style, there are few competent teachers, and no one is popularizing it at the moment. Ergo, few people.

    I used to train in the linear aspect (64 palms technique), but never the circular. That's the ultimate in that system - and maybe the best art I've ever seen. Something like a cross between Kenpo, Aikido, and Tai Ji. John Painter is very proficient.
     
  4. blindsage

    blindsage Master of Arts

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    It is true, there are very few of us on here. I have only seen a handful, and the comment above is correct there are few competent teachers and very few people in the U.S. are popularizing it currently. There just aren't a lot of practitioners out there to begin with, especially compared to the more popular styles we see out there.
     
  5. oaktree

    oaktree Master of Arts

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    I think there is a good amount of us. MT has a Chinese art section and
    The internal art section. Baguazhang is not as popular as taijiquan. But
    Plenty of more obscure arts out there.
     
  6. Zenjael

    Zenjael Purple Belt

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    The style is not as difficult as many would hold, one must learn to channel instead of hinder in their movements and thoughts in relation to the techniques.

    I wonder why so few attempt to undertake the art.
     
  7. Xue Sheng

    Xue Sheng All weight is underside

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    As already said by Jason Striker II and blindsage; not a lot of good teachers around.

    I trained a bit of Bagua with my first sifu and although he was rather good at the bagua he knew he did not know a whole lot and I pretty much learned all he knew...which was a couple forms from various styles (Yin and I possibly Liang Style) with applications.... that is why so few attempt to undertake the art
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2012
  8. oaktree

    oaktree Master of Arts

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    Depends on how you a person defines difficult. Some might think practicing circle walking in rooting and sinking for a good 20 minutes extremely difficult.
    Robert Smith said practicing 1 hour of circle walking is the most strenuous exercise there is. I find doing 8 palm done rooting and sinking the whole way through at a medium pace more demanding than jogging for 1 hour. Practicing Zhan Zhuang might bore students who want something that shows quickly its effectiveness such as Sanda or western boxing. It does not mean Baguazhang is not effective but there are requirements that needed to be met first before you can start to use the application.

    So this could be a reason why not to many people practice it.
     
  9. clfsean

    clfsean Senior Master

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    Also depends on where you live.

    We have several people teaching Gao Bagua here in ATL because Allen Pittman lived here & left multiple students qualified to teach it. There's also Yin as well, but it's kinda on the invite only.

    It all depends. Me personally I did Jiang (just the set & basics) & never understood "it". But I found it laid nicely over the top of what I already had. Kinda how Yin Fu (Louhan Quan) & Cheng Tina Hua (Shuai Jiao) were... already MA'ists & DHQ taught them bagua as a finisher. Most of those first gen students were already MA'ists & bagua was laid over what they knew & incorporated.
     
  10. Xue Sheng

    Xue Sheng All weight is underside

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    True dat.

    But I think it was actually all of those first gen students, but then I could be wrong

    EDIT

    There is a Yin School associated with He Jinbao about 100 miles from me but that is about the closest real bagua school in my area
     
  11. mograph

    mograph Master Black Belt

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    I tried it for a time, but the teacher went too fast for me. I couldn't tell my left from my right or follow the teacher's movements, so I stopped. I found the choreography of Zhan Zhuang a little easier. :D
     
  12. ilhe4e12345

    ilhe4e12345 Green Belt

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    I have always loved Bagua ever since i first saw it in the movie The One. Since then i have always researched and wanted to learn. I have trained Hsing-I for awhile but Bagua was always one that stuck out. I wasnt aware there are linear movements to Bagua as well? My current Hsing-I teacher has trained Bagua for many years, i may ask him about it on monday :). I would love to learn it.
     
  13. Xue Sheng

    Xue Sheng All weight is underside

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    :jaw-dropping: BLASPHEMY!!!!! :tantrum:

    :disgust:Bagua over Xingyi... NEVER!!!!!! :supcool:

    But seriously I got back into walking the circle for a bit a few months ago, and I did like training bagua way back when but XIngyiquan has always stuck out to me and seems to fit me best. But I would not rule out the possibility of walking the circle again someday
     
  14. Zenjael

    Zenjael Purple Belt

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    Combining Bagua with Xingyi and Taijiquan results in the three sister's form, which honestly is perhaps the most beautiful I think out there of internal arts.

    Bagua must always be combined with linear techniques, to truly grasp the generation of energy through its movements. The circular nature is to generate power, with linear techniques guiding that energy to the opponent.

    Bagua is to channel, I would say Xingyi, or any technique which results from internal energy released externally through contact, to be what is necessary to complete bagua. At least to make it combat effective.
     
  15. Xue Sheng

    Xue Sheng All weight is underside

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    I doubt He Jinbao would agree

    EDIT

    I also doubt you would find many if any Gao Style Baguazhang people that would agree either as to the need of Xingyiquan to complete the art
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2012
  16. oaktree

    oaktree Master of Arts

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    I was going to reply with my thoughts but I thought the Bagua songs would do it instead:
    Very important concept of Baguazhang

    Dealing with angles.


    As you can see lots of angling, turning, circular movments. It does not mean you always go at at a circle it means do not go attacking the center line straight as you find in things like Wing Chun. You want to go at the center line from an angle and attack it at its weakest point. Meaning you go at it from the side or from the back or use an angle
    to up root the center line.

    Baguazhang has its own fa jin type of expressions. We see similar silk reeling type movements in the palm changes, there is rotation and whole body movement so having to
    supply Xingyiquan to fill that is not needed.
     
  17. clfsean

    clfsean Senior Master

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    Center to circle...
    Circle to center...
     
  18. mook jong man

    mook jong man Senior Master

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    Wing Chun does not always attack the centreline straight that is a bit of a misconception , it depends on the circumstance if the target areas are exposed or not .

    If someone comes charging in with a straight punch we will shift to the side with our body orientated 45 degrees to the opponent and attack the centreline that way at an angle.

    If the attack is a powerful circular type of attack like a spinning backfist then we will move straight in but with our body at angle in a technique we call " Planing" similar to a car that has hit a wet patch on the road , it is still going forward but it is angled.

    We do that so that we are facing the direction of the incoming force and our deflection will have our body mass behind it and offer the greatest resistance in the direction that the force is coming from.
     
  19. Zenjael

    Zenjael Purple Belt

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    I would never say any style requires another to be 'complete', but I would say that certain styles, combined create others which are impossible to have without those base elements.

    I have found wing-chun concepts, many, which are complementary to Bagua techniques, when shifting from channeling and defense, to striking/blocking offense.
     
  20. Xue Sheng

    Xue Sheng All weight is underside

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    People think that about Xingyiquan too...but that's ok.... some people like surprise :EG:123
     

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