The only problem with this GM Hwang Keep repudiated the claim that He was a student of GM Lee, on several occasions. As you well know dropping in for a class or three really doesn't make you a student. That's he attended a few classes, is about the only thing the CDK has on GM Kee. Now, the reckoning within in my school's lineage, we recount our Okinawan Tang Soo lineage From Hwang Kee, through Yamaguchi, Kenwa Mabuni, Ankō Itosu, Matsumura Soko,Tode Sakugawa,Takahara Peichin, and so on, back into the Shaolin mists. Now, the evidence is circumstantial, but we maintain there is a high probability that Lee met and trained in Karate under/with Yamaguchi Given while both were in Manchuria at the same time. The clenched fist design known as the Karate school insignia of the Goju style as is printed here on the top was designed by the late Gogen Yamaguchi in 1932, founder of Goju-Kai Karate-Do... Notice anything similar to a certain MDK trademarked logo? Next we have Mabuni mentioned by name in Hwang's book... Then we have the fact that Hwang Kee said that Yamaguchi was a personal friend. An eye opening statement considering Koreans general hostility towards the Japanese. Then the Mixed Hard/Soft styles of TSDMDK and GoJu... Not exactly on a technique by technique basis, but some shared thinking on a number of things regarding Hard/Soft, and philosophical. In the end, we have to set a standard of evidentiary burden: "beyond all reasonable doubt" or "preponderance of evidence" by which we call it. This is what I teach my students. And my Master said (personal aside, how many of us have ever started a sentence with that clause) so...ahem, he said: Quote" I'm comfortable with the position that there is a high probability that the ORIGIN of the Pyong Ahn series of forms that we practice in our Tang Soo Do were those of Gogin Yamaguchi. Floyd wasn't interested in these sorts of things, however, He spoke well of Robert Shipley... whom, in this case seems to be a critical link... A funny coincidence perhaps, the story of Yamaguchi being fed to a tiger by the soviets and killing it reminds me of the sign that most TKD school had back in the 70's of a tiger rampant being flying sidekicked by a dobok clad guy. Admitting my bias up front, I'm pretty convinced that Tang Soo Do - Moo Duk Kwan is the "best" combat martial art. Floyd acquired the art as U.S. Airforce Security Police. He taught it to hundreds, perhaps several 1000 fellow security police. According to Floyd, Hwang Kee was very adamant that Tang Soo Do was a "MILITARY" style... that it was not about sport (winning vs losing) but strictly a matter of life vs death. Thus it seems logical that a strong martial arts style that descended to Yamaguchi, including a mindset from a samurai tradition would support and encourage this type of attitude in its practitioners. Floyd however, eschewed such speculations about the past in favor of training hard in the present. In the final analysis, I'm going with Floyd on this one. Does it really matter what dark and ancient mists certain elements of the Tang Soo Do we train in emerged from..? Would such knowledge make a stronger or faster middle punch..?" End quote: And there ya go. Take it for what its worth. This is the reason why when I was a guppie, our school was only allowed to compete in Hyungs. And the same tradition, I uphold as well.