Xingyiquan discovery

[Xue Sheng]

Figured out something last night while training Piquan on a heavy bag.

I have read a few books on Xingyiquan and in at least one of the old translations and another form Di Guoyong, they talk about the striking force of Piquan and how it can move the person being hit quite a long way backwards. This is not magic or Qi it is how the body reacts to being hit, structure and physics.

The force is said to go downward, forward and then upward (This all happens rather fast by the way). And it is that upward force and forward that breaks the root and causes the other person to fall down, or fly backwards. The initial downward/forward causes the person being hit to resist and push back, this to helps with the breaking of the root using the forward and upward force.

The downward and forward are pretty obvious but I could not figure out where the heck the upward came from or how you got any force in it without moving differently after the strike and still maintain structure. I think last night I figured it out and it all has to do with the trailing foot and the hitting of the ground with no backward movement that does it.

Now as I said, I think I figured it out, and I have done it slow, but I am in no way able to apply it yet with speed and power...only took me about 20 years (of non-contiguous training) to get here, so I have no idea how long it will be till I can make it work like the old translation and Di Guoyong say it is supposed to work

 

[greytowhite]

We were working on this the other day at sifu's house. He had a heavy bag hung up and dependent on how it reacted he would tell us whether we were doing well or not. Considering that most of us only know wood and metal he kept saying, "No, up and down, not forward and back. You want the bag not to move forward and back when you hit it. If it moves horizontally that does not allow the force to travel down to the ground and bounce inside your opponent. You want to damage your opponent and set him up for further punishment not push him away."

 

[Xue Sheng]

There are many applications to Piquan but the, supposed Huajin level is the stuff I am talking about, although I am no were near Huajin level at this. I consider myself Mingjin with leaning towards Anjin

 

[greytowhite]

Sifu is teaching me a little differently than he does most of his students as I have a background in other arts. That said, he's teaching our whole group a little differently than he would in the past. I'd say it's akin to small frame practices of taiji. If one goes by Di Guoyong's information here he has me starting from Anjin since the beginning.

ChinaFromInside.com presents...  XINYI & XINGYI - BAGUAZHANG - Interview with Mr. Di Guoyong (Part 2)

 

[tigercrane]

Did not Piquan and Pachi Quan evolve from spear handling techniques hence the direct power of linear strikes?

 

[Xue Sheng]

Did not Piquan and Pachi Quan evolve from spear handling techniques hence the direct power of linear strikes?

Never heard Pachi Quan, but as for Piquan or any of Wuxingquan it could be, but depending on which origin story you wish to believe it may not be. If it is based on General Yue Fei spear forms, then possible. If it comes form Dai family Xinyi then possibly not...or still possibly.

My guess is yes

 

[zzj]

Never heard Pachi Quan, but as for Piquan or any of Wuxingquan it could be, but depending on which origin story you wish to believe it may not be. If it is based on General Yue Fei spear forms, then possible. If it comes form Dai family Xinyi then possibly not...or still possibly.

My guess is yes

He probably means bajiquan, which is very much related to spear techniques...

 

[tigercrane]

He probably means bajiquan, which is very much related to spear techniques...

Thank you ZZJ, that is exactly what I meant - Pachi Tanglang Chuan (Bajiquan)!

 

[Xue Sheng]

Then as to Bajiquan, I cannot answer the question since I have never trained it. Although I will admit I wish I had the opportunity to in my misspent youth

 

[tigercrane]

Then as to Bajiquan, I cannot answer the question since I have never trained it. Although I will admit I wish I had the opportunity to in my misspent youth

Since this thread is about Xingyi, do you know why often times Xingyi is taught alongside Bagua? Linear and forceful, Xingyi contrasts circular and evasive Bagua. Thanks for input!

 

[Xue Sheng]

Since this thread is about Xingyi, do you know why often times Xingyi is taught alongside Bagua? Linear and forceful, Xingyi contrasts circular and evasive Bagua. Thanks for input!

Xingyi Arms and Bagua legs....yes I know, but I do not necessarily agree, there are circles in xingyi, just incredibly small ones, the turn on a dime type actually. But I do not have enough background in Bagua to discuss this nor is this about Bagua

I did a little but not that much to discuss it at any length.

Thank You

 

[MyrddinEmrys]

I think I have an answer for why Xingyi and Bagua are often taught together, though I'm sure it won't necessarily fit all cases. There's an article in the Pa Kua Chang Journal that discusses why/how Xingyi, Bagua, and Taichi came to be considered the three internal styles. The short version is that back in the day, Cheng Tinghua and some of his martial arts friends decided to make an organization to promote martial arts. The other guys did Xingyi, with one of them also doing Taichi. If I remember right, they agreed that their students should also learn each other's styles. Since Cheng Tinghua was the most prolific teacher of Bagua among the Dong Haichuan's first students and he had students learning Bagua from him and Xingyi from his friends, then I think that's probably why they are so frequently seen together.

 

[Xue Sheng]

I think I have an answer for why Xingyi and Bagua are often taught together, though I'm sure it won't necessarily fit all cases. There's an article in the Pa Kua Chang Journal that discusses why/how Xingyi, Bagua, and Taichi came to be considered the three internal styles. The short version is that back in the day, Cheng Tinghua and some of his martial arts friends decided to make an organization to promote martial arts. The other guys did Xingyi, with one of them also doing Taichi. If I remember right, they agreed that their students should also learn each other's styles. Since Cheng Tinghua was the most prolific teacher of Bagua among the Dong Haichuan's first students and he had students learning Bagua from him and Xingyi from his friends, then I think that's probably why they are so frequently seen together.

And throw in Sun Lutang after that and you have why everyone seems to think you need all 3

 

[cloud dancing]

Story I read was one Pa Qua master fought a Hsing I master and after 3 days ended it with quick strikes.Sine they became friends /students learned both styles. the straight lines with the circles.Makes sense to know both As to why these 3 styles are internal- dtuhh they just are.All use the same breathing.Dtan tien breath. hard styles use upper chest /not the abdominal breath. Strange to meet anyone doing tai-chi who has not first leaned the correct breathing.One so-called -master-wrote about expanding the chest while breathing and dtuuh gee when I sent him a lousy $35 for dvds he stole the money. boo hoo you said you'd send me Gift of Fear by Gavin de Beker so it's oaky to steal from you.
Guess story of General who lost war and was forced to crawl between winning general's legs to show his fear,then regained another army and killed the winning general.Said how My Mastre told me"do whateer you need to stay alive.If alive you can fight again.Same as Prem Rawat says-forget the battles- win the WAR. Battles will be many;win some lose some. But you only have one WAR= your life.
You think maybe he got upset? I told him to crawl on his belly if that kept him alive;duthh upset him?? So he stole my little $35??
Light shines and gee darkness is gone.Just down loaded x hours of dvds of Prem rawat from youtube.Sometimes people get upset that I read inside their minds.But gee it's not like I try to do this-it just happens with practising these 4 raja yoga techniques that Prem taught me.I do not even notice when I am doing this.
Master Li/ Hwa-Yu school of tai-chi- from decades standing still, pratising the EMPTY MIND-while doing the dtan breath; had ability to read minds and his touch-awesome .He could touch the door of his home/school and knew who ahd come and gone and who was inside. Rest in PEACE old man Li.
Lighthouse in mtns.still shining. Guess I should do some practise.

 

[Xue Sheng]

HUH!?